TINY white dots on Royal Gramma fins, ich?

[Sean W.]

Hey guys,

I noticed these TINY white spots on the pectoral and tail fins on my Royal Gramma...

I've seen ich before on fish in stores and I don't think that's what this is...

In certain light it looks like nothing, then when the light catches the fins just right you can see these teeny tiny white spots.

Video below.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Breadbox]

Very likely, mine(gramma) got it before the whole tank broke out in ich.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

The spots look too small, IMO. How long have you had him? Is he in medicated QT? Water parameters?

 

[Sean W.]

The spots look too small, IMO. How long have you had him? Is he in medicated QT? Water parameters?

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
~20 nitrate

He's been in QT for about 2 weeks.

I'm just medicating some kanaplex for one of the clownfish that's in here with him that seems to have a bacterial infection.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Can you post a couple close up photos. It could be ich after looking at the video again. Do you have copper and test kit?

Is the fish exhibiting any strange behavior? lack of appetite, flashing, scratching, etc.?

 

[Sean W.]

Can you post a couple close up photos. It could be ich after looking at the video again. Do you have copper and test kit?

Is the fish exhibiting any strange behavior? lack of appetite, flashing, scratching, etc.?

Nope, eating whatever I put in the tank, flakes, shrimp, pellets and no abnormal behavior

 

[Reef_Colors]

Mine looked the same, i had what looked like white spots on fin and one clear one on the head. Ate normal and acted normal so i let it be. Have a goby tank mate and everything is fine, spots went away by itself

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The resolution wasn't clear enough for me to see much, but I agree something is cooking there.

Watch for rapid breathing and not eating - really tiny spots can be a symptom of Amyloodinium, velvet.

Yanong says there are cases of ich where the spots are not highly visible (I've not seen that myself). In addition, the size of the trophonts can range from 50 to 450 nm - ten times difference in length.

Since the fish is in quarantine, it should receive a proper copper treatment in any event. I prefer coppersafe at 2.5 ppm for 30 days. Holding fish in quarantine without preventative treatments is generally not advised.

Jay

 

[Sean W.]

The resolution wasn't clear enough for me to see much, but I agree something is cooking there.

Watch for rapid breathing and not eating - really tiny spots can be a symptom of Amyloodinium, velvet.

Yanong says there are cases of ich where the spots are not highly visible (I've not seen that myself). In addition, the size of the trophonts can range from 50 to 450 nm - ten times difference in length.

Since the fish is in quarantine, it should receive a proper copper treatment in any event. I prefer coppersafe at 2.5 ppm for 30 days. Holding fish in quarantine without preventative treatments is generally not advised.

Jay

Ugh man... 30 days?!

This whole quarantining process has been an enormous undertaking. Will I ever actually get fish in my tank...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ugh man... 30 days?!

This whole quarantining process has been an enormous undertaking. Will I ever actually get fish in my tank...

Yep - 30 days is the norm. Actually, it should be 30 days AFTER any spots or lesions have disappeared, plus two weeks observation after that Supposedly, you can run Cupramine for 14 days, but I'm skeptical. The disconnect is this: it is known that copper does not kill the tomont (cyst) stage. The life cycle is only stopped when the tomonts release theronts that are then killed by copper. The 30 days of copper is needed to help ensure no tomonts will release theronts after the copper has been removed.

If this was definitely just a case of ich, you could run the fish through a tank transfer method and be done in about 11 days. Trouble is, we haven't been able to confirm exactly what is at work here, and tank transfers really just work on ich.

Jay

 

[Sean W.]

Yep - 30 days is the norm. Actually, it should be 30 days AFTER any spots or lesions have disappeared, plus two weeks observation after that Supposedly, you can run Cupramine for 14 days, but I'm skeptical. The disconnect is this: it is known that copper does not kill the tomont (cyst) stage. The life cycle is only stopped when the tomonts release theronts that are then killed by copper. The 30 days of copper is needed to help ensure no tomonts will release theronts after the copper has been removed.

If this was definitely just a case of ich, you could run the fish through a tank transfer method and be done in about 11 days. Trouble is, we haven't been able to confirm exactly what is at work here, and tank transfers really just work on ich.

Jay

Unfortunately the Royal Gramma did not make it.

When I first got him, he didn't eat or come out of the pipe for a few days. Then I added clown fish in hopes that they would act as a dither fish and that seemed to work. He came out and stayed out and would eat multiple times a day, whatever I offered.

Last 2 days he wouldn't eat again and wouldn't come out of the pipe.

This morning he looked very thin and was kinda flopping around lethargically, kinda spiraling and flopping into the bottom glass and was getting stuck in the corner of the tank and I had to make the call.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Unfortunately the Royal Gramma did not make it.

When I first got him, he didn't eat or come out of the pipe for a few days. Then I added clown fish in hopes that they would act as a dither fish and that seemed to work. He came out and stayed out and would eat multiple times a day, whatever I offered.

Last 2 days he wouldn't eat again and wouldn't come out of the pipe.

This morning he looked very thin and was kinda flopping around lethargically, kinda spiraling and flopping into the bottom glass and was getting stuck in the corner of the tank and I had to make the call.

My concern now is that the new clownfish have been exposed to whatever the gramma had, and if it was a contagious disease, they are at risk.

I would run the clowns through a full copper treatment, and then praziquantel, just to be safe.

Jay

 

[Sean W.]

My concern now is that the new clownfish have been exposed to whatever the gramma had, and if it was a contagious disease, they are at risk.

I would run the clowns through a full copper treatment, and then praziquantel, just to be safe.

Jay

Agreed.

They are on their last dose of kanaplex. Vacuumed all the detritus and unbeaten food out, scrubbed the tank and did a big water change before the final dose (but after pulling out the Gramma).

Will start the copper prazi treatment after.

I'm going out of town in early July... They need to be in the display tank before then.

Moving the discussion back to the clown thread.

 

[Gigajoulz]

I too have a yellow/purple Royal Gramma that we've added to our 75 gallon tank. It has lines on its side fines and tail fine, and these spots are in these lines on the side fines and theres more on the end of the tail fin. The ones on the tail fin are almost too hard to see if they're in the lines or not, but they are not white. They are yellow like the lines on its fins. There is one light purple/whitish spot on its head but it doesn't look like a wound. And, these spots are not on the body, just the fins and that one bigger spot on top of the head.

My gramma is acting fine, other than the fact that I just saw him scrape his side on the substrate and on a rock just now while I was feeding the tank. Never seen her do that before, and I've been watching her like a hawk while working from home.

Could this be ich? The LFS said if our tank had ich that the Gramma would most likely be the first one to contract it, and that the Clowns would be the first to come down with Brook.

 

[Gigajoulz]

My gramma also has one distinct white dot on each of her lowest two ventral fins, at first they look like Ich straight up, or like a piece of sugar fine sand, but there is one dot on each fin exactly in the same spot on both fins, totally symmetrical IMO but I am no fish doctor. These are the only white dots on my Gramma, and the purple/white circle on its head. The dots on the fins are almost the same color as the yellow side of the Gramma, and the dots are in the lines on the fins as far as I can tell - I hope this is useful!
-G

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My gramma also has one distinct white dot on each of her lowest two ventral fins, at first they look like Ich straight up, or like a piece of sugar fine sand, but there is one dot on each fin exactly in the same spot on both fins, totally symmetrical IMO but I am no fish doctor. These are the only white dots on my Gramma, and the purple/white circle on its head. The dots on the fins are almost the same color as the yellow side of the Gramma, and the dots are in the lines on the fins as far as I can tell - I hope this is useful!
-G

Hi, difficult to tell much without a picture, and ich doesn't show up well in pictures when it first is starting up. Watch for spots that come and go over two day's time - those are more likely to be ich.

With the scratching/flashing, royal gramma are prone to getting gill flukes, just watch that to see that it doesn't start happening multiple times per day. If it does, you may need to treat your tank with prazipro.

Jay