Tired of fighting Dinos

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carlosruga

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Hi everyone

I’m having a dinos outbreak since 3 or 4 months in a reef tank (13.5g) with a high bio load (nitrates hovering 40 to 60ppm and phosphates around 0.5). My lion fish is already to big for this aquarium which difficults to maintain lower values. (I’m preparing a 100g aquarium to transition him in some months)

I have ID dinos as Amphidinium with a cheap microscope. I have tried several methods to eradicate an none seems to help.

I began using phosguard and performing water changes to decrease nitrates and phosphates. I tried a 3 day blackout. I raised the Temperature to 28 C. I tried elegant coral method. Even though, Amphidinium goes into the sand bed, I tried also running an UV sterilizer. Nothing worked at all.
Now as a desperate measure I’m trying Dino X I’m on the Second dose and Dinos seem to be there as always.

I’m ready to begin dr’tims method if Dino x doesn’t work. But I’m loosing the hope now. I have invested a lot of effort and money trying everything I can.

Any advice would be very appreciated.

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vetteguy53081

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Keep it simple;
cease adding NoPox and coral food for at least a week
Blow the Dino’s loose and either siphon or net it up
Turn off white lights or all let’s for 5 days
During the day, add 1.5ml of liquid bacteria per 10 gallons and at night add 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide peroxide per 10 gallons to the sump
Dump the skimmer cup and clean filters daily
Day 6, resume blue lighting at 10% and ramp up daily. Same for white but at 5%
 

sixty_reefer

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I would look at giving the sand bed a good clean, try and remove the most detritus as possible and look at heterotrophic bacteria dosing to aid your bacteria outcompete the dinoflagellates.
 
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saltyhog

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Hi everyone

I’m having a dinos outbreak since 3 or 4 months in a reef tank (13.5g) with a high bio load (nitrates hovering 40 to 60ppm and phosphates around 0.5). My lion fish is already to big for this aquarium which difficults to maintain lower values. (I’m preparing a 100g aquarium to transition him in some months)

I have ID dinos as Amphidinium with a cheap microscope. I have tried several methods to eradicate an none seems to help.

I began using phosguard and performing water changes to decrease nitrates and phosphates. I tried a 3 day blackout. I raised the Temperature to 28 C. I tried elegant coral method. Even though, Amphidinium goes into the sand bed, I tried also running an UV sterilizer. Nothing worked at all.
Now as a desperate measure I’m trying Dino X I’m on the Second dose and Dinos seem to be there as always.

I’m ready to begin dr’tims method if Dino x doesn’t work. But I’m loosing the hope now. I have invested a lot of effort and money trying everything I can.

Any advice would be very appreciated.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

None of the treatments you've tried are helpful for Amphidinium. Can you post the microscope pictures that were used to ID it as Amphidinium?

The treatment of choice is silicate dosing (water glass), keeping NO3 and PO4 elevated (around 5-10 and 0.06-0.12 respectively). Avoid carbon dosing and amino acid dosing completely! These fuel dinos significantly. Dosing phyto can also be of help. If it is Amphidinium it's not a quick fix. The good thing is if they are LCA they are completely non toxic.
 
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carlosruga

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None of the treatments you've tried are helpful for Amphidinium. Can you post the microscope pictures that were used to ID it as Amphidinium?

The treatment of choice is silicate dosing (water glass), keeping NO3 and PO4 elevated (around 5-10 and 0.06-0.12 respectively). Avoid carbon dosing and amino acid dosing completely! These fuel dinos significantly. Dosing phyto can also be of help. If it is Amphidinium it's not a quick fix. The good thing is if they are LCA they are completely non toxic.
Hi @saltyhog thanks for your reply.
I actually did include a video of the microscope ID, it would be great if you can have a look. I haven’t tried dosing Silica to have diatoms to outcompete the dinos. I will give it a try after completing the Dino x treatment. I’m in the 4th dose and Dinos don’t seem to go away.
 

ZombieEngineer

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Hi @saltyhog thanks for your reply.
I actually did include a video of the microscope ID, it would be great if you can have a look. I haven’t tried dosing Silica to have diatoms to outcompete the dinos. I will give it a try after completing the Dino x treatment. I’m in the 4th dose and Dinos don’t seem to go away.

Enough to last my 65 gallon for 3 years of dosing. @Randy Holmes-Farley recommends periodic dosing wether fighting dinos or not.
 
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carlosruga

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Why don't you get that poor oversized fish out if your nano tank and rehome him temporarily at an LFS. Then you can rip clean the nano tank easily. When you get your new 100g system operating then bring the lionfish back. The nano tank can be your QT.
Here in Colombia we don’t have LFS that care for Marine fish, sadly. All marine aquaria fish and equipment is imported from other countries.
 
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SlugSnorter

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Hi everyone

I’m having a dinos outbreak since 3 or 4 months in a reef tank (13.5g) with a high bio load (nitrates hovering 40 to 60ppm and phosphates around 0.5). My lion fish is already to big for this aquarium which difficults to maintain lower values. (I’m preparing a 100g aquarium to transition him in some months)

I have ID dinos as Amphidinium with a cheap microscope. I have tried several methods to eradicate an none seems to help.

I began using phosguard and performing water changes to decrease nitrates and phosphates. I tried a 3 day blackout. I raised the Temperature to 28 C. I tried elegant coral method. Even though, Amphidinium goes into the sand bed, I tried also running an UV sterilizer. Nothing worked at all.
Now as a desperate measure I’m trying Dino X I’m on the Second dose and Dinos seem to be there as always.

I’m ready to begin dr’tims method if Dino x doesn’t work. But I’m loosing the hope now. I have invested a lot of effort and money trying everything I can.

Any advice would be very appreciated.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
could be cyano. also that tank is waaaaaaaaaaay to small for a lion, which could be part of way nitrates are so high.
 

saltyhog

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Hi @saltyhog thanks for your reply.
I actually did include a video of the microscope ID, it would be great if you can have a look. I haven’t tried dosing Silica to have diatoms to outcompete the dinos. I will give it a try after completing the Dino x treatment. I’m in the 4th dose and Dinos don’t seem to go away.

I some how missed that Carlos. Yes that's definitely Large Cell Amphidinium. If DinoX doesn't work (and it frequently doesn't) get the water glass (sodium silicate 36-40%) and dose 0.2 ml daily. It's also good to dose phyto and add copepods every couple of weeks as well. It's not a quick fix but fortunately LCA is not toxic so it's mainly just an eye sore.
 

SlugSnorter

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isn't that stuff ultimately harmless? maybe better than having diatoms IMO.
I some how missed that Carlos. Yes that's definitely Large Cell Amphidinium. If DinoX doesn't work (and it frequently doesn't) get the water glass (sodium silicate 36-40%) and dose 0.2 ml daily. It's also good to dose phyto and add copepods every couple of weeks as well. It's not a quick fix but fortunately LCA is not toxic so it's mainly just an eye sore.
 
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saltyhog

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isn't that stuff ultimately harmless? maybe better than having diatoms IMO.

It is harmless as in doesn't harm any of the livestock. However, GHA is also "harmless" and we don't want that overwhelming our tanks . :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Believe me LCA can get pretty ugly if you have a sand bed and over time it robs you of much of the joy and beauty of your tank. It's also an indication that your tank lacks biodiversity, which I'm convinced is the basic problem that triggers all dinoflagellate invasions that happen in our tanks.
 

SlugSnorter

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It is harmless as in doesn't harm any of the livestock. However, GHA is also "harmless" and we don't want that overwhelming our tanks . :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

Believe me LCA can get pretty ugly if you have a sand bed and over time it robs you of much of the joy and beauty of your tank. It's also an indication that your tank lacks biodiversity, which I'm convinced is the basic problem that triggers all dinoflagellate invasions that happen in our tanks.
GHA drains nutrients. What I mean about it being harmless is that it is better to have it than to end up getting something worse that will mess with params or kill/annoy animals. Best treatment for these is time and good params, along with some manual removal IMO

sidenote:

Ive heard good things about NPS probio, its worth a try OP
 

Screwgunner

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With a high bio load get a algea turf scubber. It is the only thing I know of that will keep nutrients down. I have 120 gallon system and 14 fish ran a 10 x16 inch screen for 8 months with o's that brought on dinos. I am now down to a 10x 5 screen and everything is on hold . (At the same peramiters) phosphates stays at .1 and coral is growing like crazy.
 

waqas_01

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If it is amphi and you only have a smaller 13.5g tank, i would start by removing the sandbed SLOWLY. Amphi dinos burrow in the sand at night if i remember correctly. Take out a quarter to a third then wait a week and repeat.

I used dino x as well at one point but be prepared to put in quite a bit. I put in 12 doses over 24 days and it got rid of the dino for me the first time.

I had coolia so it might not have the same effect but I ended up removing all my sand, put in a large piece of live rock, a lot of copepods, I started dosing phyto heavily, and I siphoned the dino into a 10um filter sock in the sump daily for a good week. I've been dino free for about three months and counting.
 
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