Tissue loss in many of my acro colonies

[MikeyG]

In the past couple weeks I've been experiencing quite a bit of tissue loss on many of my large Acro colonies. The tissue loss seems to be very rapid where it goes from being healthy one day, and within 2 days all the tissue are gone from some branches. I've done as much as I can looking through my system to see what's changing but can't seem to put my finger on a possible root cause. I've even done an ICP test and everything came back within the right ranges. I was hoping I would really see something that's out of range that I could address but that was not the outcome. I do have a few angels in the tank including Japanese swallowtail and a small Emperor angel. I thought they were the ones picking up the corals but it doesn't seem so. I've removed the small Emperor angel to another tank. And even after that I see healthy corals losing their tissue. It's very frustrating knowing you're doing everything you possibly can to maintain a healthy system only to have something like this happen.
You really feel helpless.
I've cut a few pieces off some of the colonies that are experiencing tissue loss. I've mounted them on frag plugs, move them to another tank thinking they would survive. However within one week all the pieces I move to the new tank is dead. The tanks are sharing the same plumbing and filtration system. Is just that I have different livestock in the different tanks. The new tank I move the frags to only have two tangs and some clown fishes. I know these guys do not pick on acros. Any help or good advice I can get will be greatly appreciated.

 

[vetteguy53081]

In the past couple weeks I've been experiencing quite a bit of tissue loss on many of my large Acro colonies. The tissue loss seems to be very rapid where it goes from being healthy one day, and within 2 days all the tissue are gone from some branches. I've done as much as I can looking through my system to see what's changing but can't seem to put my finger on a possible root cause. I've even done an ICP test and everything came back within the right ranges. I was hoping I would really see something that's out of range that I could address but that was not the outcome. I do have a few angels in the tank including Japanese swallowtail and a small Emperor angel. I thought they were the ones picking up the corals but it doesn't seem so. I've removed the small Emperor angel to another tank. And even after that I see healthy corals losing their tissue. It's very frustrating knowing you're doing everything you possibly can to maintain a healthy system only to have something like this happen.
You really feel helpless.
I've cut a few pieces off some of the colonies that are experiencing tissue loss. I've mounted them on frag plugs, move them to another tank thinking they would survive. However within one week all the pieces I move to the new tank is dead. The tanks are sharing the same plumbing and filtration system. Is just that I have different livestock in the different tanks. The new tank I move the frags to only have two tangs and some clown fishes. I know these guys do not pick on acros. Any help or good advice I can get will be greatly appreciated.

Assure alk isnt low, calcium isnt elevated, po4 of at least .06, nitrate 20 and salinity 1.025
I dont believe this is soft tissue nicrosis but water related.

Alk- 8-11
ca 400-450
Mag 1300-1400
temp 77-79

 

[X-37B]

Post your parameters. It may be bacterial which is hard to determine in any system.
An alk spike could also cause similar issues. Low alk too but only if you are running higher alk numbers.

Do you have any disco mushrooms in your system?
They can release and will sting/stress/kill almost anything they come in contact with.

 

[jda]

Picking fish has never led to complete tissue loss, at least for me. I would not worry about this. Picking fish usually manifest in slower growth, missing polyps and other small irritations more than death.

Since some of those acros look fine, my guess is that you are going to have lighting spectrum/output or some residual building blocks, or other parameters, in the range where some acropora will not mind, yet others can suffer, have STN and even die.

ICP can barely crack the surface of what is going on with tank water. If you are not doing so, I recommend some water changes over the next few weeks.

 

[MikeyG]

Assure alk isnt low, calcium isnt elevated, po4 of at least .06, nitrate 20 and salinity 1.025
I dont believe this is soft tissue nicrosis but water related.

Alk- 8-11
ca 400-450
Mag 1300-1400
temp 77-79

Alk = 8.9..Hanna Checker
Ca = 480..Red Sea test kit
Mg = 1600..Red Sea test kit
Po4 = 0.06..Hanna Checker
No3 = ~10..Red Sea & Salifert
Temp = 74 to 77 throughout the day.
Na = 34ppm.. Milwaukee digital tester.

Funny enough I do not dose magnesium but it thinks it's getting added via the Red Sea Trace Colors.

I use BRS Sodium Chloride, Soda Ash, and kalkwasser for sodium and alkalinity. Red Sea Trace colors for trace elements along with Brightwell Strontinum-B as the trace colors do not include strontinum.
In addition I add 1 drop of Lugol's iodine each day as levels are too low without it per ICP testing.

Total volume of water = 850gal between all 3 tanks, sumps, refugium, and plumbing

 

[MikeyG]

Post your parameters. It may be bacterial which is hard to determine in any system.
An alk spike could also cause similar issues. Low alk too but only if you are running higher alk numbers.

Do you have any disco mushrooms in your system?
They can release and will sting/stress/kill almost anything they come in contact with.

No alkalinity spikes that I know of in the past year. And I don't have any disco mushrooms but I do have three other types of mushrooms in this tank ...see pics

 

[MikeyG]

Picking fish has never led to complete tissue loss, at least for me. I would not worry about this. Picking fish usually manifest in slower growth, missing polyps and other small irritations more than death.

Since some of those acros look fine, my guess is that you are going to have lighting spectrum/output or some residual building blocks, or other parameters, in the range where some acropora will not mind, yet others can suffer, have STN and even die.

ICP can barely crack the surface of what is going on with tank water. If you are not doing so, I recommend some water changes over the next few weeks.

I think you might be on to something there with the lighting spectrum. My t5s are at the point where they do need changing. They're just about 14 months old. My lighting setup is Kessel AP9x along with ATI blue Plus.
I will change the T5 bulbs this week

 

[jda]

14 month T5s are not likely the problem.

I would look more to trace supplements. You have no idea what is actually in those and ICP does not even get close to measuring all of the good and bad things, or what form that they are in. I would stop dosing everything but the big 3 and just change water for a while.

 

[vetteguy53081]

No alkalinity spikes that I know of in the past year. And I don't have any disco mushrooms but I do have three other types of mushrooms in this tank ...see pics

Any change in flow?
The tank overall looks good with exception of a couple corals which you pointed out.
Some causes for STN, and these are possibilities:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- Addition of new corals

 

[ninjamyst]

Happened to me. Bacterial infection. Only affected a few colonies while other colonies were fine. Tried fragging off dead pieces but wouldn't stop the RTN. Tried fragging off the base healthy pieces and still couldn't save them. Good luck with your colonies and hope you find something that works. I lost my priced Walt Disney colony along with pink lemonade and a dozen other frags...about $5k down the drain.

 

[X-37B]

You can give KZ flatworm stop a run for 6 months. It will help strenghten corals from my experience. Wont hurt anything so it may be worth a run.

 

[dwest]

My first thought was to stop adding anything that doesn’t maintain calcium and alkalinity. Then do a succession of 10% water changes. I know you have a big system but that’s what I would do.

 

[zheka757]

not to steal this thread, but is there a difference when STN starts from base of the coral, vrs stn goes throughout the whole coral? Id like to know if it means anything

 

[Matthijs]

Did you allready dip a RTN'ing coral to check for pests?
Sometimes they're so small you barely see them with the naked eye. Had the same issue as you and I came to the conclusion that I had white bugs.
Make a dip, take your smartphone, zoom in on the coral and record while you are dipping.

Grtz,
Matthijs

 

[MikeyG]

Happened to me. Bacterial infection. Only affected a few colonies while other colonies were fine. Tried fragging off dead pieces but wouldn't stop the RTN. Tried fragging off the base healthy pieces and still couldn't save them. Good luck with your colonies and hope you find something that works. I lost my priced Walt Disney colony along with pink lemonade and a dozen other frags...about $5k down the drain.

That's exactly what I am afraid of

 

[MikeyG]

not to steal this thread, but is there a difference when STN starts from base of the coral, vrs stn goes throughout the whole coral? Id like to know if it means anything

I really don't know if there is a difference.
Bottom line is the both lead to loss of colonies

 

[MikeyG]

My first thought was to stop adding anything that doesn’t maintain calcium and alkalinity. Then do a succession of 10% water changes. I know you have a big system but that’s what I would do.

Water change shouldn't be a problem.
I have the capacity for 12% change every 3 days if needed.

 

[MikeyG]

Assure alk isnt low, calcium isnt elevated, po4 of at least .06, nitrate 20 and salinity 1.025
I dont believe this is soft tissue nicrosis but water related.

Alk- 8-11
ca 400-450
Mag 1300-1400
temp 77-79

See pics from my 5/22/2023 ICP TEST .
Not sure what the source of Vanadium is, but I am suspecting it's in one of the ingredients in the DIY food I made.

 

[MikeyG]

See pics from my 5/22/2023 ICP TEST .
Not sure what the source of Vanadium is, but I am suspecting it's in one of the ingredients in the DIY food I made.

My Iron is always on the low side because I run a 100gal refugium full of chato

 

[vetteguy53081]

See pics from my 5/22/2023 ICP TEST .
Not sure what the source of Vanadium is, but I am suspecting it's in one of the ingredients in the DIY food I made.

Vanadium is often associated with tanks that have black hawaiian sand in it. It is a source of elements released in to tank when at low concentration (about .0003 is useful for coral). At higher levels , not fatal but elevated Mag will drive the number up and cause skin issues with certain coral