To dilute or not to dilute Reef Energy AB+ and/or All for Reef

[chaostactics]

I want to start dosing AB+ and all for reef by doser instead of by hand.

I'm dosing pretty small volumes 5mL or less based on parameters.

I'm a bit worried about precision on the doser and how much of the "dose" will remain in the dosing line (I'm aware I can measure, and will).

Anyway I'd like to dilute. I am also aware that AB+* only lasts a week unrefrigerated.

Question is so I dilute with RODI or fresh mixed saltwater? If so which with which?

*I swear there was something about mixing AB+ on the RedSea site but I can't find it at the moment.

 

[blaxsun]

Depending on the length of tubing, you'll probably end up with 20ml or more just in the tube alone that you'll need to manually flush out at the end of every week as well for the AB+.

I've seen a few setups where they drill a small hole in a nano fridge to store the AB+.

 

[Sshannon]

Depending on the length of tubing, you'll probably end up with 20ml or more just in the tube alone that you'll need to manually flush out at the end of every week as well for the AB+.

I've seen a few setups where they drill a small hole in a nano fridge to store the AB+.

That sounds about right. What if there was a way to draw up 4-5 mLs of AB+and then draw up fresh water through the rest of the line to prevent a dump of that "20 mLs" at the end of the week? Maybe using check valves and two dosing pumps, you can link them together with a y or t union.

 

[blaxsun]

Yes, that could work. I think you'd need check valves on both lines, but in theory you draw 5ml with pump-1/tube-1 and then flush it with 30ml (or so) of RO water from pump-2/tube 2-y-1. You just need to ensure that there's a small time interval between each.

 

[chaostactics]

Bump

 

[Tonycass12]

You can use acropower rather then ab plus. Its another amino supplement that won't need refrigeration and can be at room temp. I tried ab+ for a few months and wasn't a fan been on acroppwer for 2 months and have noticed all my corals colors getting much brighter and more vibrant.

 

[chaostactics]

You can use acropower rather then ab plus. Its another amino supplement that won't need refrigeration and can be at room temp. I tried ab+ for a few months and wasn't a fan been on acroppwer for 2 months and have noticed all my corals colors getting much brighter and more vibrant.

I only have Zoa/Paly.

Also refrigeration isn't my issue it mainly the low volume I'm dosing if I leave my supplements concentrated. In the case of both All for Reef and AB+ I'm dosing 5 mL or less. I may start dosing ChaetoGro again and that one is less than 1mL for my purposes.

 

[chaostactics]

One last bump. Leaning towards RODI since nothing contains live cultures.

 

[Cjeippert]

I want to start dosing AB+ and all for reef by doser instead of by hand.

I'm dosing pretty small volumes 5mL or less based on parameters.

I'm a bit worried about precision on the doser and how much of the "dose" will remain in the dosing line (I'm aware I can measure, and will).

Anyway I'd like to dilute. I am also aware that AB+* only lasts a week unrefrigerated.

Question is so I dilute with RODI or fresh mixed saltwater? If so which with which?

*I swear there was something about mixing AB+ on the RedSea site but I can't find it at the moment.

I believe it is one part ab+ and 2 part tank water for target feeding. No watering down needed for dosing tank.

 

[Cjeippert]

I know Red Sea will not tell us what is in it, but will they at least tell us what the A.,B, and + mean? I heard of T5s referred to as actinic and blue + spectrum, but not sure how it relates to a bottle of energy

 

[FishyFishFish]

They won't tell you anything. And when you complain because they won't tell you anything they stop talking to you.

Pretty hopeless customer service IMO, and I'm moving away from Red Sea as a result.


I also have some funky things going on with AB+. I was going to throw it away, as I'm concerned by the unnatural color, but I thought I'd give it a go as I had it anyway and Red Sea wouldn't let me send it back. I'm dosing a tiny amount compared to their guidelines (about 1/5 of that recommended) and am starting to see something, exactly the same green color as the AB+, on my back wall. I can't see if it is a new green algae, or if the AB+ is staining something, but it wasn't there before and it doesn't look good. If anything, I am actually backing off from the tiny amount that I am currently using.


As for the dosing, if your doser allows reverse dosing, then you might be able to set up a dose, after the feeding dose, to empty the line. This would require some tinkering to get it to work (this is how the GHL doser fills and empties the KH director sample tube). Otherwise I would either purge the line once a week or, if possible, only keep enough in the reservoir so none of it (in the reservoir or tube) stays unrefrigerated for more than 7 days.


I don't know what AB+ means, but it used to be in 2 parts (A and B) that they combined into one bottle. Maybe the plus just signifies that it is the new, one part, AB formula.

I can't wait to finish mine so that I can move on to something else.

 

[Frogspon]

They won't tell you anything. And when you complain because they won't tell you anything they stop talking to you.

Pretty hopeless customer service IMO, and I'm moving away from Red Sea as a result.


I also have some funky things going on with AB+. I was going to throw it away, as I'm concerned by the unnatural color, but I thought I'd give it a go as I had it anyway and Red Sea wouldn't let me send it back. I'm dosing a tiny amount compared to their guidelines (about 1/5 of that recommended) and am starting to see something, exactly the same green color as the AB+, on my back wall. I can't see if it is a new green algae, or if the AB+ is staining something, but it wasn't there before and it doesn't look good. If anything, I am actually backing off from the tiny amount that I am currently using.


As for the dosing, if your doser allows reverse dosing, then you might be able to set up a dose, after the feeding dose, to empty the line. This would require some tinkering to get it to work (this is how the GHL doser fills and empties the KH director sample tube). Otherwise I would either purge the line once a week or, if possible, only keep enough in the reservoir so none of it (in the reservoir or tube) stays unrefrigerated for more than 7 days.


I don't know what AB+ means, but it used to be in 2 parts (A and B) that they combined into one bottle. Maybe the plus just signifies that it is the new, one part, AB formula.

I can't wait to finish mine so that I can move on to something else.

Wow I noticed this same thing in my tank after using AB+... never connected the dots.

I don't use much of it either. Maybe 10ml once a week in a 75G.

 

[chaostactics]

I've diluted by half with RODI. Will probably dilute half again as much when I get around to it. I am also planning on shortening the tubing as much as possible.

 

[Mppp]

You can use acropower rather then ab plus. Its another amino supplement that won't need refrigeration and can be at room temp. I tried ab+ for a few months and wasn't a fan been on acroppwer for 2 months and have noticed all my corals colors getting much brighter and more vibrant.

LPS as well or do you only have an SPS tank with your acropower use?

 

[Tonycass12]

LPS as well or do you only have an SPS tank with your acropower use?

I have some lps- torch,blastos,acans.
They all seamed to improve on acropower just not to the extent my sps did.

 

[The_Dan]

I've diluted by half with RODI. Will probably dilute half again as much when I get around to it. I am also planning on shortening the tubing as much as possible.

Hi, I am sitting in the same boat where a dilution of reef energy would be a great solution for dosing my nano. How did the dilution work for you, are you still diluting or have you switched to full strength again?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One last bump. Leaning towards RODI since nothing contains live cultures.

I see this is old, but I think dilution of All For Reef will need to be with RO/DI or the high calcium may cause precipitation of calcium carbonate.

There's some risk of bacteria consumption of the formate once diluted so watch for any precipitation over time (of calcium and magnesium carbonate).

 

[chrisjj625]

I see this is old, but I think dilution of All For Reef will need to be with RO/DI or the high calcium may cause precipitation of calcium carbonate.

There's some risk of bacteria consumption of the formate once diluted so watch for any precipitation over time (of calcium and magnesium carbonate).

Can you explain why diluting it would lead to precipitation? Also, what would the precipitation look like? Would it only be Mag and Cal that would precipitate out? I diluted mine and there is def some unclear bits in the bottom of my dosing jar. Is this a concern? Should it be completely clear?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you explain why diluting it would lead to precipitation? Also, what would the precipitation look like? Would it only be Mag and Cal that would precipitate out? I diluted mine and there is def some unclear bits in the bottom of my dosing jar. Is this a concern? Should it be completely clear?

Not sure which dilution you mean...

Salt water dilution
All For Reef Liquid is about 40,000 ppm in calcium.

If you mix that 1:1 with salt water, the final product will have about 20,200 ppm calcium and about 4 dKH of alk.

I do not think that combination is stable toward precipitation of calcium carbonate.

It would be white powder in the solution, fairly quickly. This is guaranteed to happen, IMO

Fresh water dilution

The concern here is bacterial conversion of formate to bicarbonate and carbonate. At 1,000 - 20,000 ppm calcium (depends on the dilution), it does not take much bicarbonate/carbonate at all to lead to calcium carbonate precipitation. Again, white powder, but not instantly. This one would build over days to weeks. This may or may not happen, depending on whether there are bacteria present to convert the formate, how much you diluted it (2x dilution may be fine since it may be high enough to prevent bacterial growth) and how fast they act relative to usage.

 

[chrisjj625]

Not sure which dilution you mean...

Salt water dilution
All For Reef Liquid is about 40,000 ppm in calcium.

If you mix that 1:1 with salt water, the final product will have about 20,200 ppm calcium and about 4 dKH of alk.

I do not think that combination is stable toward precipitation of calcium carbonate.

It would be white powder in the solution, fairly quickly. This is guaranteed to happen, IMO

Fresh water dilution

The concern here is bacterial conversion of formate to bicarbonate and carbonate. At 1,000 - 20,000 ppm calcium (depends on the dilution), it does not take much bicarbonate/carbonate at all to lead to calcium carbonate precipitation. Again, white powder, but not instantly. This one would build over days to weeks. This may or may not happen, depending on whether there are bacteria present to convert the formate, how much you diluted it (2x dilution may be fine since it may be high enough to prevent bacterial growth) and how fast they act relative to usage.

Thank you for the clarification. I am diluting 100% with fresh RO/DI water. I think that is the same as 2x? Basically, I take my mix 500ml Solution, then add another 500ml of fresh RO/DI.