Transferring livestock & equipment from a tank shutdown

[Empti]

Purchasing someone's 5 year old 200g marine setup. Almost all of the livestock are fish/corals I like and would eventually purchase & the equipment seems to all be high quality albeit a bit old. Partial equipment list includes, Vectra Quiet Drive pumps, NYSO Quantum 220 skimmer, 2 Aqua medic reefdoser EVO 4, Hailer HC-500A chiller with pump, 2 radion xr30w g3pro's, 1 xr15 g4 & reef link, RO filter, and 225 pounds of rock. Best of all only 30 minutes from me so no shipping & can inspect.

My issue isnt concern over whether the used items are going to be duds because with the price of whats on offer I'm happy to replace a few things however a few concerns with the immense size of the tank in a 1 bedroom upstairs apartment. My question is whether It would be feasible to transfer all the equipment (piping/skimmer/lights/pumps and most of the livestock (except those that need a larger tank) to a smaller tank (60-120 gallons) in hopes of it still being considerably cheaper then buying all new equipment. Beyond that will it also increase the remaining lifespan of the equipment since it will be running on low output settings as it'll be overkill for that size tank? Would be storing or trying to resell the tank/stand.

I'm worried that transport + changing into a new uncycled tank even with all the liverock/sand/filters from the old tank will be too much for some of the livestock and also unsure if its really works out much cheaper ($2500 usd for the whole setup + whatever the 60-120gal tank+stand costs) then just buying a new AIO tank.

 

[Dom]

Purchasing someone's 5 year old 200g marine setup. Almost all of the livestock are fish/corals I like and would eventually purchase & the equipment seems to all be high quality albeit a bit old. Partial equipment list includes, Vectra Quiet Drive pumps, NYSO Quantum 220 skimmer, 2 Aqua medic reefdoser EVO 4, Hailer HC-500A chiller with pump, 2 radion xr30w g3pro's, 1 xr15 g4 & reef link, RO filter, and 225 pounds of rock. Best of all only 30 minutes from me so no shipping & can inspect.

My issue isnt concern over whether the used items are going to be duds because with the price of whats on offer I'm happy to replace a few things however a few concerns with the immense size of the tank in a 1 bedroom upstairs apartment. My question is whether It would be feasible to transfer all the equipment (piping/skimmer/lights/pumps and most of the livestock (except those that need a larger tank) to a smaller tank (60-120 gallons) in hopes of it still being considerably cheaper then buying all new equipment. Beyond that will it also increase the remaining lifespan of the equipment since it will be running on low output settings as it'll be overkill for that size tank? Would be storing or trying to resell the tank/stand.

I'm worried that transport + changing into a new uncycled tank even with all the liverock/sand/filters from the old tank will be too much for some of the livestock and also unsure if its really works out much cheaper ($2500 usd for the whole setup + whatever the 60-120gal tank+stand costs) then just buying a new AIO tank.

You wouldn't transfer anything to the new tank until the cycle is completed. Transferring everything to an un-cycled tank may necessary suffering and death of your livestock.

 

[homegrowncichlid]

the tank transfer with live rock is instant, however, if you are taking the live sand, there will be a new cycle, so hold all the inhabitants in a couple of those black 28 gallon bins with the yellow lids, from Home depot till the sand cycles and do a 100% water change, before you move the inhabitants in. The tank doesn't have to be full, just enough sea water to cover all the sand and any rocks, that may have die off from the transfer. I don't think the nutrient bloom/ cycle will take too long, a day or a week, once it's all settled, change out all the water, land scape it and fill it to the top.

 

[Empti]

You wouldn't transfer anything to the new tank until the cycle is completed. Transferring everything to an un-cycled tank may necessary suffering and death of your livestock.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer.216923/ I thought it'd be fine based off this thread, just keep bioload reasonable, swap out the sand and keep the live rock & filter media wet during transfer

 

[Dom]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer.216923/ I thought it'd be fine based off this thread, just keep bioload reasonable, swap out the sand and keep the live rock & filter media wet during transfer

In your OP, you said "worried about transferring everything into an uncycled tank". My remark was based on that statement.

What you are speaking about is seeding your tank. If you have freshly mixed water at 35ppt and new substrate, you can seed the tank with the live rock from the old setup.

The rock from the old setup will have nitrifying bacteria colonies that will process fish waste into harmless components.

 

[brandon429]

That is incorrect above, there will not be a cycle.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

I need to to a tank swap out here in the next few weeks. same tank size just a full replacement. red sea 650P around 180ish gallons I have 2" of carib sea special grade my fav. sand. I plan to put the fish corals and LR in to a tank with HOB filter, flow heater and light for maybe (...

www.reef2reef.com

move your tank exactly like this, with rinsed sand (ask ourselves, how do they get full reef tanks worth 50K$ into a macna convention and all start on the same date? by eliminating transfer cycling, by moving clean like we do for 60 pages)

take one hour to study jobs in that thread. its two million dollars + in reef tanks cleaned or transferred, same thing. we only transfer rip cleaned tanks is the whole point of the read


notice: no bottle bac used



notice: no ammonia testing used, sixty pages, no losses, = skip cycling.

notice how all jobs are a disassembly + re assembly


the difference is, you'd reassemble in the new tank. all procedures are the exact same whether transferring a tank, or wiping out cyano. with that much money on the line you'd benefit from seeing a free roadmap on how to xfer it and not kill it and never doubt the cycle one instant in the entire process.

 

[Empti]

That is incorrect above, there will not be a cycle.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

I need to to a tank swap out here in the next few weeks. same tank size just a full replacement. red sea 650P around 180ish gallons I have 2" of carib sea special grade my fav. sand. I plan to put the fish corals and LR in to a tank with HOB filter, flow heater and light for maybe (...

www.reef2reef.com

move your tank exactly like this, with rinsed sand (ask ourselves, how do they get full reef tanks worth 50K$ into a macna convention and all start on the same date? by eliminating transfer cycling, by moving clean like we do for 60 pages)

take one hour to study jobs in that thread. its two million dollars + in reef tanks cleaned or transferred, same thing. we only transfer rip cleaned tanks is the whole point of the read


notice: no bottle bac used



notice: no ammonia testing used, sixty pages, no losses, = skip cycling.

notice how all jobs are a disassembly + re assembly


the difference is, you'd reassemble in the new tank. all procedures are the exact same whether transferring a tank, or wiping out cyano. with that much money on the line you'd benefit from seeing a free roadmap on how to xfer it and not kill it and never doubt the cycle one instant in the entire process.

This is basically what I was thinking, ill definitely have a look through that thread Do you have any other good links on plumbing a tank or any personal input based off the equipment list/price on whether its worth the effort over buying a new AIO tank?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

To be clear, you are buying a 200g stocked reef, but want something in the 60-120g range and wondering about transferring over the equipment?

Anything you have Room for, should be fine to move over. It may be oversized for the application but I'd rather be oversized than under.

If you're transferring the live rock in the tank, there will be no cycle. It will instantly be able to handle the load of the new tank.

Either replace the sand, or go through the entire process of a full sand wash. Don't transfer it over as is.

You may be able to sell the 200g used, and buy a newer but still used tank in your desired size range.

 

[Empti]

To be clear, you are buying a 200g stocked reef, but want something in the 60-120g range and wondering about transferring over the equipment?

Anything you have Room for, should be fine to move over. It may be oversized for the application but I'd rather be oversized than under.

If you're transferring the live rock in the tank, there will be no cycle. It will instantly be able to handle the load of the new tank.

Either replace the sand, or go through the entire process of a full sand wash. Don't transfer it over as is.

You may be able to sell the 200g used, and buy a newer but still used tank in your desired size range.

Yeah, from what Brandon/you have commented I'm glad to see that it should be easily achievable. Just need to do heaps of research on putting together/maintaining the 60G.

Only remaining concern is just that I'm very much new to the hobby & don't really know the longevity of products. From what research I've done so far most of the equipment seems high-end and well maintained but is 3-5 years old being sold to me at like 20-30% original retail price which seems like a great deal. Just tossing up whether that's a better way to go then buying budget models of new equipment.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Yeah, from what Brandon/you have commented I'm glad to see that it should be easily achievable. Just need to do heaps of research on putting together/maintaining the 60G.

Only remaining concern is just that I'm very much new to the hobby & don't really know the longevity of products. From what research I've done so far most of the equipment seems high-end and well maintained but is 3-5 years old being sold to me at like 20-30% original retail price which seems like a great deal. Just tossing up whether that's a better way to go then buying budget models of new equipment.

Imo, if you are getting the better built parts already with the package, plan to do a full overnight soak in white vinegar and a good nylon bristle scrub and clean on everything.

Nothing lasts forever in salt water, but properly maintained equipment lasts a Lot Longer. At 20% of retail for everything else, if you need to replace Something, there's still meat on the bone for you.

 

[Dom]

That is incorrect above, there will not be a cycle.

@brandon429 - Can you be more specific?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

One thing that is often overlooked with transferring live rock from tank to tank, is thoroughly cleaning it.

Nylon stuff bristle brush first, then a ton of directed flow (turkey baster is my preferred but have also used a high flow pump in a tub) blowing all the junk out of the pores opens then up to do what they need to be doing.

Live rock can become packed with junk in our tanks and in the ocean. The cleaner the rock is of debris in the pores, the better a biological filter it is.

You'll be amazed/disgusted at what can come off of/out of rock that has been in a home aquarium for a few years. Washing a few rocks can turn 10 g of water into an opaque almost sludge.

 

[brandon429]

yes Dom. In 100% of cases we can design a tank transfer that will skip cycle and instantly carry the same bioload in a new tank that it prior carried in an old tank. that above is a pattern set of millions of dollars of reef tanks being taken apart fully, where rocks and corals are held in buckets and fish in other buckets, full tank takedowns are shown in high res pics on every page.


we're doing it for assorted reasons

some are to do tank upgrades, or to move homes

some are transporting reef animals state to state for new homes.


some are to swap the existing sandbed for a new one

some are to beat dinos, or cyano invasions


and absolutely none of the steps vary on each job that's the amazing part. its ten different reasons to be doing the same job: rip cleaning all the waste out of a system before you transport it. that's what it takes to skip a cycle, it has nothing to do with boosting up bac, bacteria aren't killed in moving one tank to another that's not an antiseptic move.


The analogy to reef conventions is that folks will set up display reefs, instantly ready by a given friday using skip cycle biology applied above, and they carry fifty thousand dollars in bounce shrooms plus twenty grand in gold torches all with fish and expensive zoanthids filling the system; ie every display tank at any common reef tank convention. those are true skip cycle tanks; they're not some ticking time bombs of cycle crash. if the convention ran nine more years, the tanks would run nine years in place, that's a skip cycle.



we must always keep in mind that sellers have exacting means to control livestock, they never hesitate, they initiate.


only forum posters are trained in constant cycle fear and doubt. i look to undo that on a constant basis.

if anyone reads merely the last ten pages of that thread and truly looks at every job, you can see how the steps for the OP here will be the same. they'll need to take apart the current reef


which we do

then move it in buckets or totes to a new home, that's the different part. you're resetting up things in your home, but you still rip cleaned every surface in the tank just as any link shows. any link shows how we clean rocks, any link included in the work thread shows how we prep sand with tap water.

you just take the common rules of reefing, break them, and document the proof for eight years in one thread...that's the mode.
*the recycle risk in tank transfers has to do with waste upwelling. transferring over unrinsed materials presents an option for states of decay to get mixed around in the new tank depending on bed presentation at the time of exchange. rip cleaning simply streamlines all beds so that outliers don't exist for tank crashes, our method is 100% safety rate on file. we don't allow dangerous waste to overcome systemic bacteria, we've blast rinsed out all the waste and kept the wet surfaces full of bacteria for tank transfer. cleaning sand and rocks does not rob a reef tank of crucial bacteria is the end takeaway, we never use bottle bac there. we never hesitate, we initiate action.

 

[brandon429]

my commentary has nothing to do with hardware choices/it's just a biological option for transferring the tank without loss, without testing for any parameter and without making extra purchases.

 

[Sink_or_Swim]

That is incorrect above, there will not be a cycle.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

I need to to a tank swap out here in the next few weeks. same tank size just a full replacement. red sea 650P around 180ish gallons I have 2" of carib sea special grade my fav. sand. I plan to put the fish corals and LR in to a tank with HOB filter, flow heater and light for maybe (...

www.reef2reef.com

move your tank exactly like this, with rinsed sand (ask ourselves, how do they get full reef tanks worth 50K$ into a macna convention and all start on the same date? by eliminating transfer cycling, by moving clean like we do for 60 pages)

take one hour to study jobs in that thread. its two million dollars + in reef tanks cleaned or transferred, same thing. we only transfer rip cleaned tanks is the whole point of the read


notice: no bottle bac used



notice: no ammonia testing used, sixty pages, no losses, = skip cycling.

notice how all jobs are a disassembly + re assembly


the difference is, you'd reassemble in the new tank. all procedures are the exact same whether transferring a tank, or wiping out cyano. with that much money on the line you'd benefit from seeing a free roadmap on how to xfer it and not kill it and never doubt the cycle one instant in the entire process.

Hi Brandon! Not to hijack OP's threat, but quick question regarding this: I have an existing 32 gallon I am transferring into my new 75 gallon tank in a week or so. Obviously with my rock being mature, I know moving that all into the new tank (along with the MarinePure bio balls from my current filter) should mean I won't have a cycle... BUT, would the roughly 30 lbs of rock I have in the current tank be inadequate for biological filtration in the larger tank? I will be adding a lot more rock (I use CaribSea LifeRock) to the old rock in the 75 gallon, but it will obviously not have any established bacteria yet. Could the 30 lbs of existing rock, plus the bio balls, support the larger water volume? Would it be beneficial to throw in some TurboStart just in case?

I plan on throwing out my old sand, using a mixture of live and dry sand, and new water.

Hardest part of the whole thing for me is that my 32 gallon sits on the stand I'll be using for the 75 gallon... the whole move will need to be done the same day because of that and I won't have time to set up the new tank first, let it cycle if needed, etc. Hoping for an instant set up without harming any of my livestock or corals. Thoughts?

 

[brandon429]

I'm 100% sure that much live rock will carry any bioload in reefing. I've never seen a fish loading here that 30 lbs couldn't fully control, this is a certain plan for success. You need to pre rinse that sand for hours in tap water, to total clarity, do outside or it clogs bath drain

Then set up the tank and with this rock transfer it is guaranteed to skip cycle
This is a no bottle bac job, not even for insurance, this is a guaranteed skip cycle plan as it stands.

 

[brandon429]

A key reason it skip cycles is because that live rock goes into the display, where waste is created/ same zone

Immediate contact is made

Some people put the old rock in a sump, new rock up front not cycled

In that case the waste concentrates around unready rock and has to await drain delivery to the active surfaces

The detail in your plan of thirty pounds moved into the new tank display up top is the insurance move. You will have zero cycle, zero mini cycle regardless of what api says

 

[Sink_or_Swim]

A key reason it skip cycles is because that live rock goes into the display, where waste is created/ same zone

Immediate contact is made

Some people put the old rock in a sump, new rock up front not cycled

In that case the waste concentrates around unready rock and has to await drain delivery to the active surfaces

The detail in your plan of thirty pounds moved into the new tank display up top is the insurance move. You will have zero cycle, zero mini cycle regardless of what api says

Thank you so much! That's what I thought, but just wanted to ask to be sure. I had read a lot of the skip cycle thread when starting my first tank, and it was very insightful and helpful. The comment that hit home for me and was an "aha" moment, was when you had said "how do you think people are able to set up instantly cycled tanks in one day for shows, etc? You can apply this exact method when setting up your tank at home." Such a great point! The info on bottle bac was very good as well. I did use Fritz TurboStart when starting my current tank, and a couple other products like Microbacter 7 and PNS Substrate Sauce. That may have been overkill, and I had begun a fishless cycle with nitrocycle prior to adding the bottle bac a couple weeks later because I wasn't in a rush at the time... but I was amazed at how easy it was to have a tank ready for fish so quickly. Two thumbs WAY up! I hardly ever have ran any chemical media whatsoever, just the occasional Chemi-pure Blue. Only thing supporting my tank's bioload is the sand, rock, and MarinePure bio balls in the filter chambers. Love it!

I chose to go the canister filter route this time around, so no sump to put cycled rock in. All the existing rock will go into the display from the start, and the cycled bio media will go into the canister. I have a somewhat deep sand bed, and plan to do about the same in the new tank since I have a sand sifting goby and plan to add a blue spot jawfish down the road. So, I did buy about 40 lbs new sand and will vigorously rinse and maybe add some of the existing to it. Probably the topmost layer that isn't as gross as the very bottom. Also, I keep a pretty low bioload as far as fish go, in the current tank. I add fish slowly to not stress the system, and only have 7 fish currently that will be moving into the 75. Only plan to stock a few more fish after that, and be done adding any more. Now I just have to figure out how much I need to beef up my CUC for the larger tank.

Really appreciate your presence on this forum Brandon!