Treating ich in qt

Gtinnel

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I have two fish in my 29g quarantine tank that both have ich. Im getting ready to use cupramine, but the lfs that i got the fish from suggested lowering salinity to 1.014 during cupramine. From everything ive been reading online it says not to lower salinity when using cupramine. So what salinity would you keep your qt tank at while treating with cupramine?

I also have 2 or 3 pieces of rock in my qt that id like to keep in there during treatment (for hiding spots and biological filtration). I realize it will absorb some of the copper and then leech it back out over time. Im fine with never using this rock for anything other than a fish only qt tank. How hard is it to get a stable level of copper if i keep the rock in the tank?
 
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Moved over to fish disease so the right peeps can see your thread!
 

Jay Hemdal

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I have two fish in my 29g quarantine tank that both have ich. Im getting ready to use cupramine, but the lfs that i got the fish from suggested lowering salinity to 1.014 during cupramine. From everything ive been reading online it says not to lower salinity when using cupramine. So what salinity would you keep your qt tank at while treating with cupramine?

I also have 2 or 3 pieces of rock in my qt that id like to keep in there during treatment (for hiding spots and biological filtration). I realize it will absorb some of the copper and then leech it back out over time. Im fine with never using this rock for anything other than a fish only qt tank. How hard is it to get a stable level of copper if i keep the rock in the tank?
I prefer to use copper at a specific gravity of 1.020 to 1.022. It seems a bit more toxic in low salinity (esp. freshwater).
The ability for rock to pull copper seems to vary, and I don’t know why. Test daily if you measure a drop, and proportionally redose. Don’t use ammonia removers when dosing copper.
Jay
 
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Gtinnel

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I prefer to use copper at a specific gravity of 1.020 to 1.022. It seems a bit more toxic in low salinity (esp. freshwater).
The ability for rock to pull copper seems to vary, and I don’t know why. Test daily if you measure a drop, and proportionally redose. Don’t use ammonia removers when dosing copper.
Jay
So when the rock does pull the copper out of the water will it reach some "saturation" point where it wont pull anymore out?

Also, when beginning to add cupramine would you recommend following the directions or should I space the initial dose out over a few days. I've read different opinions on it, and since you're the expert i figured I will go with what you suggest.

Edit- It also seems to just be ich (not velvet) on the fish and they're acting fine so i dont think getting the copper level up quickly is of much concern if it makes a difference to your opinion on how quick to add cupramine.
 

DaddyFish

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So when the rock does pull the copper out of the water will it reach some "saturation" point where it wont pull anymore out?

Also, when beginning to add cupramine would you recommend following the directions or should I space the initial dose out over a few days. I've read different opinions on it, and since you're the expert i figured I will go with what you suggest.

Edit- It also seems to just be ich (not velvet) on the fish and they're acting fine so i dont think getting the copper level up quickly is of much concern if it makes a difference to your opinion on how quick to add cupramine.
You're not exactly asking me, but that's never stopped me before. :D

I target 1.021 salinity for all QT medication cycles. As Jay said, salinity below that level can produce significantly toxic and unpredictable med results, not to mention the acclimation stress involved when you try to raise the salinity to 1.025+ later.

I spread copper over 2-3 days for fish that are not receiving emergency treatment. Day-1 half dose, Day-2 half dose, Day-3 adjust, Days 4-7 monitor. I use CopperSafe and I've found that regardless of the rock, moderate sand etc., copper tends to stabilize between Days 4-7.
 
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Gtinnel

Gtinnel

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You're not exactly asking me, but that's never stopped me before. :D

I target 1.021 salinity for all QT medication cycles. As Jay said, salinity below that level can produce significantly toxic and unpredictable med results, not to mention the acclimation stress involved when you try to raise the salinity to 1.025+ later.

I spread copper over 2-3 days for fish that are not receiving emergency treatment. Day-1 half dose, Day-2 half dose, Day-3 adjust, Days 4-7 monitor. I use CopperSafe and I've found that regardless of the rock, moderate sand etc., copper tends to stabilize between Days 4-7.
Im more than happy to take advice from anyone who offers it.

So you try to reach 0.5 mg/L by the third day? How long do you leave the copper at this level. The directions say 2 weeks but do you go any longer? Also, when removing the copper is there any reason that needs to be done gradually or would a large water change and carbon together be fine?

Sorry for so many questions but this is the first time I've needed to use copper.
 

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Im more than happy to take advice from anyone who offers it.

So you try to reach 0.5 mg/L by the third day? How long do you leave the copper at this level. The directions say 2 weeks but do you go any longer? Also, when removing the copper is there any reason that needs to be done gradually or would a large water change and carbon together be fine?

Sorry for so many questions but this is the first time I've needed to use copper.
I try to reach the CopperSafe recommended level of 1.5 - 2.0 (as checked with a Hanna tester) by the end of Day-3. Then after that I monitor/tweak to maintain close to 1.5 but NOT BELOW.

With Ich I would run the copper at the recommended therapeutic level (1.5 for Coppersafe) at least 30-days. Be sure to predose any water changes so that you never allow the copper to drop below therapeutic level.

Removing copper I've had the best success with 2-3 large (25-33%) water changes over a short period of a day or so. Add carbon and I like to also use Cuprisorb. That process typically eliminates detectable copper within 1-2 weeks.
 

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instead of using live rock in QT, try Seachem Matrix media. Works great for QT and can be cleaned/recharged if necessary. Keep some in a media bag in your sump or filter. If you need to setup a QT/hospital tank, you have pre-seeded media already cycled and ready to go.
Cycles a QT tank in days and best of all, it doesn't absorb any copper or heavy metals, so it won't affect your medications.
 

DaddyFish

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+1 on Matrix. That's my choice as well and I've never had it affect copper levels or leach copper afterwards.

Sorry I don't have any experience with Cupramine, just CopperSafe. Seachem site says 0.5 is recommended for saltwater, so Yes, I would dose to 0.25 Day-1, then target 0.5 Day-2.
 
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Gtinnel

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Sorry I don't have any experience with Cupramine, just CopperSafe.
I dont have any experience with either LOL. I only picked cupramine because I saw a thread where someone (possibly Jay) said that cupramine is better for treating an active outbreak, whereas the others are better for preventative treatment. I'll take your advice (which closely matches the directions) and try to get the copper to the final level in 2-3 days.

I will try matrix in the future but for now ill keep the rock in the tank. If i cant keep the copper levels stable i will pull it out and add some pvc fittings for hiding space. Ive had the qt tank running for about a year and it has a hob filter that uses the bio wheels, so hopefully if i need to pull the rock that will suffice for biological filtration.
 

Jay Hemdal

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So when the rock does pull the copper out of the water will it reach some "saturation" point where it wont pull anymore out?

Also, when beginning to add cupramine would you recommend following the directions or should I space the initial dose out over a few days. I've read different opinions on it, and since you're the expert i figured I will go with what you suggest.

Edit- It also seems to just be ich (not velvet) on the fish and they're acting fine so i dont think getting the copper level up quickly is of much concern if it makes a difference to your opinion on how quick to add cupramine.
The label instructions for Cupramine should be followed. Slow ramp up is not needed. Just be sure you are measuring accurately, both tank volume and subsequent copper testing.
I don’t know if carbonate rocks change in the rate they absorb copper over time. I do know that a rapid drop in pH can release some of the bound up copper.
Jay
 
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