Triton Results Analysis - Zach's 120 Gallon Reef Resurgence

[zachxlutz]

All - I got my Triton results back this morning and I just want to see what you folks think.

I'm battling a serious dinoflagellate invasion that won't seem to go away. I'm dosing up phosphates on a daily basis to around .2 ppm and it will drop to almost nothing within 24 hours. I notice my Fe/Iron levels are low... Could the lack of iron be a limiting factor in growing algae that would eventually start to outcompete the dinos? ( @mcarroll @taricha )

Any other thoughts? ( @Randy Holmes-Farley )

Thanks in advance!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Iron generally shouldn't be detectable by Triton unless you just dosed or are dosing very large amounts. I dosed it regularly and it wasn't detectable. Their test limits are far higher than NSW levels.

I'm not sure what one could see to suggest a particular chemical was contributing to a dino problem, but I don't see anything amiss anyway. You might consider dosing a trace element mix to see how the tank responds (since some are low or potentially low), but I'm not expecting it would impact dinos.

 

[sghera64]

Iron generally shouldn't be detectable by Triton unless you just dosed or are dosing very large amounts. I dosed it regularly and it wasn't detectable. Their test limits are far higher than NSW levels.

Randy, why does Triton not report nitrate or Nitrogen?

Is the reason for consistently low Fe values in Triton samples because the algae in our systems removes it as fast as we put it in? Or, is it being bound to sand/rock rapidly?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is lot of N2 in air, so it contaminates the N signal. Same issue for O, H.

Iron precipitates rapdily, and is also taken up.

 

[taricha]

Like Randy said, organisms can use Fe present at levels way below sensitivity of any test. But Fe also gets depleted, so tests are not really helpful on Fe either way.

How long have you been in this phase where you add a ppm or so of PO4 and its gone by next test round? (It's good. keep plugging along.)
Also, if you are really wanting to see things grow other than dinos, then Randy's suggestion of a trace element cocktail is good plan, and I've done similar for a phase in my tank. Make sure the tank isn't limited in anything. Be prepared to export Dino cells though. They WILL grow, but hopefully other stuff will too.

 

[mcarroll]

I guess Fe does read zero on your test, but triton gives you a green light on it anyway. If you're a believer in their system I guess that should mean something, but I can't say I know what the green light actually means. I assume it means "good" though, correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I guess Fe does read zero on your test, but triton gives you a green light on it anyway. If you're a believer in their system I guess that should mean something, but I can't say I know what the green light actually means. I assume it means "good" though, correct?

They know they cannot detect down to NSW levels (or even close), so green presumably just means that there is no undesirable data.

 

[zachxlutz]

Like Randy said, organisms can use Fe present at levels way below sensitivity of any test. But Fe also gets depleted, so tests are not really helpful on Fe either way.

How long have you been in this phase where you add a ppm or so of PO4 and its gone by next test round? (It's good. keep plugging along.)
Also, if you are really wanting to see things grow other than dinos, then Randy's suggestion of a trace element cocktail is good plan, and I've done similar for a phase in my tank. Make sure the tank isn't limited in anything. Be prepared to export Dino cells though. They WILL grow, but hopefully other stuff will too.

I've been dosing KNO3 as needed (weekly or so since) since 12/16/2016. I've been dosing PO4 since 6/11/2017. After the first bloom of dinos receded, I began to slack on my nutrient testing and lo and behold the dinos returned. I've been AGGRESSIVELY dosing KNO3/PO4 to 10 ppm/.2 ppm daily since 08/15/17. The tank will use almost the entirety of the PO4 within 24 hours. I believe it MAY be slowing down the consumption... I'm not sure though. Dinos still appear to be going strong. Since 08/15 I've dosed 1.77 ppm of phosphates into the tank! WILD!

I need to work on my export methods more as I'm holding off on water changes I'm not really sure how to remove the dinos from the system... Maybe a siphon hose through a filter sock into the sump? Would a felt sock filter out the dino cells?

I've seen some cyano popping up which I've read in the other thread about dinos that this may be a breakthrough period?

I also started dosing Prodibio BioDigest last night in an attempt to build up the bacterial population of the tank to help soak up the dino detritus.

I've got a doser and Red Sea ABCD coral colors trace elements I could put online really easily... That could be an option.

 

[mcarroll]

They know they cannot detect down to NSW levels (or even close), so green presumably just means that there is no undesirable data.

Wow, even with the methods Triton uses they can't get a usable Fe reading? How is Fe supposed to be tested for in NSW? I have to assume there's "some method" right? But is there one accessible to us?

I've seen some cyano popping up which I've read in the other thread about dinos that this may be a breakthrough period?

I also started dosing Prodibio BioDigest last night in an attempt to build up the bacterial population of the tank to help soak up the dino detritus.

Cyano should be a plus, but it should only be the first stage in a progression.

Bacteria and carbon (e.g. BioDigest) are not what the tank is lacking, so I would probably save any more BioDigest that you have on hand until after this is all over with. (It seems to have a nearly unlimited shelf life thanks to their packaging.)

Any chance you can inoculate your tank with some detritus, sand or rock pieces from a healthy tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow, even with the methods Triton uses they can't get a usable Fe reading? How is Fe supposed to be tested for in NSW? I have to assume there's "some method" right? But is there one accessible to us?

Their are lots of methods and whole conferences on this topic. It is not easy. Often the iron is preconcentrated by binding to organics. ICP-MS is also often used.

 

[mcarroll]

Their are lots of methods and whole conferences on this topic. It is not easy. Often the iron is preconcentrated by binding to organics. ICP-MS is also often used.

We're kinda "stuck" with observation, trial and error then. Not the easy way, but thankfully it works!

 

[zachxlutz]

Cyano should be a plus, but it should only be the first stage in a progression.

Bacteria and carbon (e.g. BioDigest) are not what the tank is lacking, so I would probably save any more BioDigest that you have on hand until after this is all over with. (It seems to have a nearly unlimited shelf life thanks to their packaging.)

Any chance you can inoculate your tank with some detritus, sand or rock pieces from a healthy tank?

We've got a couple convos going on currently, lol.

Is the BioDigest going to fight against me? I dosed it last night without consultation!

I'll ask some local club members whom I trust for some sand and live rock, ASAP.

 

[mcarroll]

Don't shy away from detritus if you can get it.....could be the best option of all three. A nice "dirty" scoop of sand would be a sweet blend.

 

[mcarroll]

Is the BioDigest going to fight against me?

It may....dino's are already farming bacteria on a rich carbon source they add to the tank in the form of their detritus, so adding more carbon and bacteria would seem a little bit like opening a new smorgasbord for them.

Might be interesting to hear if Prodibio thought otherwise though!

 

[zachxlutz]

Don't shy away from detritus if you can get it.....could be the best option of all three. A nice "dirty" scoop of sand would be a sweet blend.

How's that for a thread title? "LOOKING FOR DIRTY SAND" lol!

It may....dino's are already farming bacteria on a rich carbon source they add to the tank in the form of their detritus, so adding more carbon and bacteria would seem a little bit like opening a new smorgasbord for them.

Might be interesting to hear if Prodibio thought otherwise though!

Biodigest is listed as ONLY being a source of bacteria with NO carbon added. I was hoping the bacteria might help to consume the dino detritus.

 

[mcarroll]

How's that for a thread title? "LOOKING FOR DIRTY SAND" lol!