Tropic Marin All-For-Reef: Any downsides to it?

[maleks.reef]

you would need at least an alk test kit, you can get the other two kits later.
You first need to get your alk stable, probably best to aim for your salt alk lvl to start with, so if your salt has alk of say 8, aim for 8 for now, if your tank alk is only 7.5 you'll need to add something like baking soda to bring the alk up to 8, then you test every 24 hours to see how much your tank is using, if the alk drops down to say 7.7 from 8, it's using 0.3 alk a day so you will need to dose 0.3kh of All For Reef to get it back to 8, easy as that, there is a All for Reef dosing calculator on the AFR site, and a baking soda calculator is easy enough to find online.

Okay good, I have an alk kit already. Also, my salt mix (blue red sea salt) is supposed to give me 8 dkh, however, weirdly enough, my alk is at 8.6. How is that possible? I never dosed anything and even my water changes are slacking. Could it be because I micro bubble scrub the tank every week or so?

 

[Reef.]

Okay good, I have an alk kit already. Also, my salt mix (blue red sea salt) is supposed to give me 8 dkh, however, weirdly enough, my alk is at 8.6. How is that possible? I never dosed anything and even my water changes are slacking. Could it be because I micro bubble scrub the tank every week or so?

Alk in salt is not always exactly what it says on the label...my guess is your salinity is off.
Very easy to add too much salt if what you check your salinity with is not correct.

 

[maleks.reef]

Alk in salt is not always exactly what it says on the label...my guess is your salinity is off.
Very easy to add too much salt if what you check your salinity with is not correct.

I calibrate my refractometer with rodi and i test the salinity, its always at 1.024-25 so my salinity is in check. Plus for my alk to go up to 8.6 from the advertised 8 i would have to add ALOT more salt and my tank would be dead so i dont think thats the issue.

 

[Quietman]

and how often do you do WCs?

Last several months...once every couple weeks do 15%.

Before that I was doing 2 liters a day at feeding time....only had to add a few ml of AFR every few days then.

So yeah you do have to adjust some if you change things. But I didn't go testing crazy. I upped my AFR adds a bit when reduced WC and next time I tested a week or so later I was a bit light 8.0 and upped it some.

 

[maleks.reef]

Alk in salt is not always exactly what it says on the label...my guess is your salinity is off.
Very easy to add too much salt if what you check your salinity with is not correct.

Your comment got me thinking, i measured my salinity using my red sea refractometer (i calibrate with rodi) and it says 1.025. then i measured with the tool that looks like a thermometer and floats in the water, it gave me 1.028.. could my salinity be this high all along which is why my softies are very slow growers and my lps have died? Keep in mind, the floating salinity checker is like 5 years old.. what do i do?

 

[Reef.]

Your comment got me thinking, i measured my salinity using my red sea refractometer (i calibrate with rodi) and it says 1.025. then i measured with the tool that looks like a thermometer and floats in the water, it gave me 1.028.. could my salinity be this high all along which is why my softies are very slow growers and my lps have died? Keep in mind, the floating salinity checker is like 5 years old.. what do i do?

I use a Tropic Marin hydrometer which is extremely accurate, depends what brand you are using but refractometer are best calibrated with 35ppt water not rodi water, they need calibrating often and you also need to make sure you use a calibrating fluid that is accurate, many are not, for those reasons I use a hydrometer now.

 

[maleks.reef]

I use a Tropic Marin hydrometer which is extremely accurate, depends what brand you are using but refractometer are best calibrated with 35ppt water not rodi water, they need calibrating often and you also need to make sure you use a calibrating fluid that is accurate, many are not, for those reasons I use a hydrometer now.

The floating hydrometer or the swing arm one?

 

[Reef.]

The floating hydrometer or the swing arm one?

Floating, I don't believe they do an arm one.

 

[Ross Petersen]

It really is a matter of choice. All of these methods have their advantages and disadvantages. The reason we offer more than one choice is due to that exact quality. The Balling Method allows you to make those tweaks on a regular daily basis. But you still get the increase in salinity in time, and you need 3 solutions to do it. The AFR lets you do all of that in one solution, with no increase in the salinity. But you have to use a different product, the Balling B, from time to time if your alkalinity is not keeping up with your Ca. That is, of course, not always the case. So in an instance where the alkalinity usage and Ca usage are in the stoichiometric proportions, then the AFR is a clear winner. It is hard to knock the one solution and your done approach. But if you need to make the alkalinity adjustments, then it is really a matter of choice only. There is no real functional advantage to either method that I know of.

Hey Lou. I'm using All-for-Reef in a 40 gallon mixed SPS tank. Finding my magnesium hovers around 1600-1700 ppm (via Red Sea test kit), if not higher. This is too high. I'm dosing AFR manually when required. And VERY minimally. Alk is 8.0, calcium 400. Using Instant Ocean purple bucket (Mg reported around 1320 mg/L).

I can't get my magnesium down. What do you advise? Switching over to carbocalcium? Diluting the All-for-Reef with Carbocalcium?

Thank you

 

[Reef.]

Hey Lou. I'm using All-for-Reef in a 40 gallon mixed SPS tank. Finding my magnesium hovers around 1600-1700 ppm (via Red Sea test kit), if not higher. This is too high. I'm dosing AFR manually when required. And VERY minimally. Alk is 8.0, calcium 400. Using Instant Ocean purple bucket (Mg reported around 1320 mg/L).

I can't get my magnesium down. What do you advise? Switching over to carbocalcium? Diluting the All-for-Reef with Carbocalcium?

Thank you

that is very high, may just be a testing error, have you tried testing your fresh salt mix to see what that is, will give you an idea if it's really as high as it seems.

 

[Ross Petersen]

that is very high, may just be a testing error, have you tried testing your fresh salt mix to see what that is, will give you an idea if it's really as high as it seems.

Yeah it was 1450 but will test again tomorrow. Something is off, or my system just doesn’t work for all-for-reef dosing.

 

[Reef.]

Yeah it was 1450 but will test again tomorrow. Something is off, or my system just doesn’t work for all-for-reef dosing.

for mag to increase 300/400 that would take a lot of AFR.

The AFR dosing calculator says to start with 7mls a day for a 40g tank, that would increase mag by 2mg, you would have to dose for 150-200 days to get that increase, and only provided your tank wasn't using any of the mag you were adding.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Yeah it was 1450 but will test again tomorrow. Something is off, or my system just doesn’t work for all-for-reef dosing.

I apologize for the late response. I have been away for a week without cell or WIFI service.... I don't have a 100% definite answer for you. I would think that your high Mg concentration is most likely NOT due to the addition you are doing of AFR. But, that being said, it certainly wouldn't hurt to switch to Carbocalcium plus trace elements while you are fighting with the high Mg issue. The Mg has to be coming from someplace. So I think checking your fresh mixed salt water is a good idea. If it is low enough, then a few aggressive water changes should do the trick. Another thing to consider is that, although your Mg is really high, a high Mg concentration is no where near as detrimental as a very low Mg concentration. So if you can get it down a little, you are probably O.K.

 

[Ross Petersen]

I apologize for the late response. I have been away for a week without cell or WIFI service.... I don't have a 100% definite answer for you. I would think that your high Mg concentration is most likely NOT due to the addition you are doing of AFR. But, that being said, it certainly wouldn't hurt to switch to Carbocalcium plus trace elements while you are fighting with the high Mg issue. The Mg has to be coming from someplace. So I think checking your fresh mixed salt water is a good idea. If it is low enough, then a few aggressive water changes should do the trick. Another thing to consider is that, although your Mg is really high, a high Mg concentration is no where near as detrimental as a very low Mg concentration. So if you can get it down a little, you are probably O.K.

Many thanks, Lou. I opted to do a 50% water change on this smaller AIO. Going to stick with All-for-Reef and see how things go. 3mL/day dosed 8 hours apart to begin to be extra cautious. Going to trial a different Mg test kit as well.

In speaking with some of the chemistry folks on here, it sounds like magnesium is rather secondary to alkalinity, calcium, and pH monitoring. I don't want to overanalyze things here...

 

[hllb]

Hi all. I am considering switching to this product and was curious about the dosing compare to what I'm dosing currently (and I'll admit, I read through the first 4 pages of this thread and stopped reading so sorry if this is a repeat LOL). I know the directions are to start dosing at 5 ml per day per 26g (which is about what my 32g biocube has in actual water volume so I'd start there). But I'm curious what my end dose will end up being so I can guesstimate the costs involved (also moving to a 60g tank soon, so if the cost will be too much for that tank, I'd likely not do it). Tanks is a mixed reef with softies/zoas, some LPS, and two encrusting montis (one of which is dinner plate sized)

I'm currently dosing the following:

Red Sea Foundation A (Cal): 3.6 mL daily; Calcium maintained around 425-430
Red Sea Foundation B (Alk): 9.9 mL daily; alk maintained around 8.5
Red Sea Trace Elements (all 4): 1.5 mL weekly

 

[Reef.]

Hi all. I am considering switching to this product and was curious about the dosing compare to what I'm dosing currently (and I'll admit, I read through the first 4 pages of this thread and stopped reading so sorry if this is a repeat LOL). I know the directions are to start dosing at 5 ml per day per 26g (which is about what my 32g biocube has in actual water volume so I'd start there). But I'm curious what my end dose will end up being so I can guesstimate the costs involved (also moving to a 60g tank soon, so if the cost will be too much for that tank, I'd likely not do it). Tanks is a mixed reef with softies/zoas, some LPS, and two encrusting montis (one of which is dinner plate sized)

I'm currently dosing the following:

Red Sea Foundation A (Cal): 3.6 mL daily; Calcium maintained around 425-430
Red Sea Foundation B (Alk): 9.9 mL daily; alk maintained around 8.5
Red Sea Trace Elements (all 4): 1.5 mL weekly

they have a dosing calculator https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/en/minerals/all-for-reef.html
with a max dosing recommendation but they have said that the max recommendation has been surpassed by people running very successful tanks. So it doesn’t seem it’s a hard and fast rule.

You do know you can buy the power which is much cheaper, or even make your own and again cheaper, a 60g tank IMO would be reasonable to run on AFR.

 

[hllb]

they have a dosing calculator https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/en/minerals/all-for-reef.html
with a max dosing recommendation but they have said that the max recommendation has been surpassed by people running very successful tanks. So it doesn’t seem it’s a hard and fast rule.

You do know you can buy the power which is much cheaper, or even make your own and again cheaper, a 60g tank IMO would be reasonable to run on AFR.

Thanks, I’ll check that out. I haven’t done the math yet but it’s not like the Red Sea collection of stuff is cheap either. I’m all for convenience, within reason.

 

[Reef.]

Thanks, I’ll check that out. I haven’t done the math yet but it’s not like the Red Sea collection of stuff is cheap either. I’m all for convenience, within reason.

A quick calculation…

AFR power $70 makes 10 litres.

Their recommendation is nearly 60ml max dosage a day (your tank would have to be very mature to need that, I would think)

So for one year of use that would be 60ml x 365 = 21,900ml.

You would need just over 2 tubs of AFR a year.

$140 a year or $11.50 a month, and remember that’s at max dose, which would take you a good while to get to the stage where you needed to dose 60ml a day.

That’s based on the powder, making the diy recipe could make it even cheaper.

 

[hllb]

I did some calculations and it looks like I’d need to dose 4.75ml a day on my current tank to match consumption so around $5.85 a month.

dumb question though - why does the bottle have two spouts?

 

[N.Sreefer]

I did some calculations and it looks like I’d need to dose 4.75ml a day on my current tank to match consumption so around $5.85 a month.

dumb question though - why does the bottle have two spouts?

One side has the built in measuring part that you can measure ml with the other side allows you to pour freely if you need a larger dose.