Tropic Marin All-For-Reef Q's and Worries

[MaxxuM]

From what Randy has said, there is some carbon dosing involved with AFR. So it would make sense consumption would appear to increase. I don't know enough about organic chemistry to say why or how, but I'm guessing there is some interaction or maybe competition going on. You may want to ask him, but I'd probably reduce dosing because you may actually be dosing more than you think.

Oh, and my ALK is maintaining at 8.1 dKH @ 1.3 mL (rounded up from 1.22 mL). It's official. I love AFR lol.

 

[Waynerock]

From what Randy has said, there is some carbon dosing involved with AFR. So it would make sense consumption would appear to increase. I don't know enough about organic chemistry to say why or how, but I'm guessing there is some interaction or maybe competition going on. You may want to ask him, but I'd probably reduce dosing because you may actually be dosing more than you think.

Oh, and my ALK is maintaining at 8.1 dKH @ 1.3 mL (rounded up from 1.22 mL). It's official. I love AFR lol.

Yea I stopped and everything went back to normal. There seems to be a lot of bacteria dosing lately and I got caught up in it although Vibrant worked great for me. I am just a locksmith so yea kinda hard question to ask without sounding like an idiot. Once stability is established the tank almost goes on auto pilot, AFR makes that so simple. Can’t wait for this it looks to save me about 10 bucks a month at least.

 

[MaxxuM]

Hey, don't feel bad. I find myself wanting to try the next "big thing" regardless if I need it or not. Tropic Marin has had the powder version on their site teasing us for a while. I'm noticing some iron (I'm guessing) falling out of solution in AFR which means it isn't bonding (like a compound). It's going to be interesting to see how they get this to work. When I finally move into my house and start the 45 I'm going to be wishing for that powder for sure!

 

[ichthyoid]

Anybody ever notice Alk consumption go crazy when dosing bacteria products? I don’t know the name of the bacteria that does the Alk production In AFR but when I dose Vibrant or microbacter clean ( small amounts) my Alk consumption goes way up to the point I have to supplement with part 2 to keep balance. When I stop dosing either, my Alk balances out again and the AFR keeps everything level. I wonder if these products contain the bacteria that messes with the way existing bacteria in the tank processes the formate? I hope that makes sense. I just couldn’t figure out why Alk was dropping so fast and think the extra bacteria I was adding was pigging out. Good to know if the case

The class of bacteria which are able to metabolize single carbon organic compounds, which in the case of AFR is formate, are called methanogens. I doubt we are referring to a specific strain with this product.

 

[MaxxuM]

Yea I stopped and everything went back to normal. There seems to be a lot of bacteria dosing lately and I got caught up in it although Vibrant worked great for me. I am just a locksmith so yea kinda hard question to ask without sounding like an idiot. Once stability is established the tank almost goes on auto pilot, AFR makes that so simple. Can’t wait for this it looks to save me about 10 bucks a month at least.

Oh I forgot to ask. Since there is some oxygen depletion with AFR. Do you dose in the daytime vs night?

 

[design.maddie]

I dose AFR first thing when the lights come on.

 

[MaxxuM]

I just tested my pH and it's at 7.8 at the end of the cycle. It's usually 8.0. Definitely going to start dosing during the day time.

 

[Waynerock]

Oh I forgot to ask. Since there is some oxygen depletion with AFR. Do you dose in the daytime vs night?

It’s on a doser 2 ml every hour for 12 hours

 

[brewandreef]

I recently switched from kalk in the ATO to AFR on a doser in a high demand 30 gallon. I started out with the 5mL and was getting ridiculous swings, so I increased the dosage pretty fast. I'm at 30 mLs a day now. For me, dosing via apex every 30 minutes, an hour before full light intensity until an hour before lights off helps keeps my alkalinity stable. Dosing 24 hours a day led to large swings.

 

[User1]

Oh I forgot to ask. Since there is some oxygen depletion with AFR. Do you dose in the daytime vs night?

At first I was treating TM AFR as I was with ESV 2 part. I dosed over 24 hours. One of the threads in the chemistry sub forum the lads over at TM and Randy chit chatted about the product and a comment made me think about it so I asked the question. The reply I got, and I'll have to try and find it now, is that it doesn't matter (no reason per say to do one vs the other) other than the corals will consume the alk during lights on. I think that was more or less it.

So I set the dosing schedule for TM AFR to start when my lights come on + 1 hour. So 0600 is when mine kicks in and stops around an hour or two before lights off. 2000 I guess as my lights go out at 2200. So I only dose during the lighting on.

 

[Chris Spaulding]

I started AFR about a year ago when it first came to the states. system is a RedSea Reefer 250 with a small frag tank plumbed in, for a total of about 70 gallons. As my SPS have grown from frags to small colonies my consumption of AFR has sky rocketed over the last year. Started at about 18 ml a day and now I am up to 77 ml a day. Yes above the recommended amount. But after posing the question to TM here on the TM boards I was told that it is only a guide line and they know of many people running much higher than the recommended daily dose. The theory of possible dosing of added bacteria increasing ALK consumption is interesting. I Dose every morning 5 ML of Reefbiofule and 5 ml of Microbactor7. I will start today to not dose theses and see if my Alk starts to rise more than expected.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes above the recommended amount. But after posing the question to TM here on the TM boards I was told that it is only a guide line and they know of many people running much higher than the recommended daily dose.

The higher the dose, the more important is dosing during the day (IMO). Their max dose was determined based on O2 consumption, not alkalinity added.

 

[MaxxuM]

The higher the dose, the more important is dosing during the day (IMO). Their max dose was determined based on O2 consumption, not alkalinity added.

Thank you Randy. I know TM has said that oxygen depletion is minimal, but I did see my pH go down overall while dosing at night. I don't skim, my total water volume is ~4.5g and I live in a small apartment (higher CO2) so maybe my tank is just more sensitive to changes.

 

[MaxxuM]

I started AFR about a year ago when it first came to the states. system is a RedSea Reefer 250 with a small frag tank plumbed in, for a total of about 70 gallons. As my SPS have grown from frags to small colonies my consumption of AFR has sky rocketed over the last year. Started at about 18 ml a day and now I am up to 77 ml a day. Yes above the recommended amount. But after posing the question to TM here on the TM boards I was told that it is only a guide line and they know of many people running much higher than the recommended daily dose. The theory of possible dosing of added bacteria increasing ALK consumption is interesting. I Dose every morning 5 ML of Reefbiofule and 5 ml of Microbactor7. I will start today to not dose theses and see if my Alk starts to rise more than expected.

I'd like to know what you find out. I'm willing to bet the higher your pH the more leeway you'll have dosing AFR.

 

[Waynerock]

I can never get it over 8. Usually around 7.9 and that’s with windows open and nice weather. If I remember correctly when I was dosing 2 part it was 8.0-8.1. That’s was a while ago and I never really tested ph all that much.

 

[MaxxuM]

I don't test much either and I try to leave a window open most days - it doesn't seem to make any difference. Maybe raising ALK to 9 will help bring pH up. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be encouraging faster growth with space becoming a premium.

 

[t5Nitro]

I've got the 10L DIY AFR mix from BRS waiting to start using. As I'm getting closer to the end of my current 2-part jugs, do you all think it would be a good idea to start dosing small increments in my 75g during the day without changing my 2-part dosing until I see a small 0.1 alk rise, and then decrease my 2-part dosing by 1mL until the 2-part is completely off and AFR is completely on?

My alk is stable at 7.7. I could start 5mL of AFR with my current 2-part volumes until I see that number rise to 7.8 and then back off 1mL on the 2-part and see if it will drop to 7.7, then up the AFR another 5mL etc. Decent plan?

 

[MaxxuM]

AFR isn't like two part. You may not see it's effects for a few hours or even longer until its broken down. Plus, when you first start there will be a lag - mine was 3 days. You can go to TM AFR and use the calculator and extrapolate from the numbers and plug in your ALK loss. You'll probably drop ALK for a couple of days, but it will correct itself.

The short answer is, if you are confident in your math and can dose precisely I'd only do it for 2 days max before making the complete changeover to AFR. I'm no expert though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you Randy. I know TM has said that oxygen depletion is minimal, but I did see my pH go down overall while dosing at night. I don't skim, my total water volume is ~4.5g and I live in a small apartment (higher CO2) so maybe my tank is just more sensitive to changes.

They may say it is minimal, but it is also how they set the max dose, so presumably someone at TM thinks it is not insignificant.

 

[Cbones1979]

Dang you brought the math! I just started dumping In 15 ml a day and after two days started testing and when it was low bumped it up by 5 ml till I got stability. Prob not the safest way but it worked. Still right at 30 ml a day and Hope it stays cause it’s getting expensive! Looking forward to TM’s powder version got that to notify my when it makes it across the pond, I will stil pay more for just one powder instead of completely making my own. I got to say the X1 dosing pumps where made for AFR! Best 50.00 doser ever!!! Waiting on ICP results, hopefully the AFR is taking of ALL the trace elements like they advertise. I will find out soon

What size is your tank