Tropic marin pro reef salt...German made buckets though...

[ReefRondo]

I just have too many doubts now to continue with this salt for now. Certainly until I get my most recent ICP results back. I have 10 unopened buckets of this stuff…

 

[areefer01]

A reefer friend's tank was on the verge of crashing last week due to a bad batch of Tropic salt. He had it ICP tested.

And the ICP results proved it was due to the salt? Was the displays water tested or only the salt or both?

Easy to blame the salt never the hobbyist.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I don't know and I am not bothering him anymore. He has a large tank with expensive corals and knows what he is doing. He was not able to attribute the problem to anything else. Tropic has had defects with their salt from Turkey that I do know.

 

[ReefRondo]

This salt has changed in some way over the last few years. It used to never leave residue and now it does. I never found foreign objects in the buckets and now I do. I am more than happy to be proven wrong however. I’d just like to get to the bottom of this and move on. Really gets you down when something is wrong with your tank. I’m sure you’d all agree. It is far worse not knowing what the issue is knowing you are unable to be proactive in getting a remedy in motion. (Terrible sentence I know)

 

[undermind]

Easy to blame the salt never the hobbyist.

Well all I've learned from all the official and public responses following Turkeygate is that it's quite the other way around.

 

[areefer01]

Well all I've learned from all the official and public responses following Turkeygate is that it's quite the other way around.

What is it that you don't like about what they have said? Or you just don't believe in their assessment and/or reason?

 

[undermind]

Double post

 

[undermind]

What is it that you don't like about what they have said? Or you just don't believe in their assessment and/or reason?

Ok let me see if I can do this eloquently and not work myself into a tizzy. This is kind of a hot button for me.

Most every content maker I follow, as well as the public figures associated with TM have made public-facing statements regarding the suspect salt from Turkey. I probably haven't heard every last podcaster and YouTuber in the world's take, but I've heard the positions taken by Lou Ekus (Tropic Marin), BRS, The Reefing Report, Mr Saltwater Tank via SaltwaterAquarium.com, and a few more YouTubers. The general position I perceive is that the hobbyists who have lost corals are full of it.

I get that their responses are much more nuanced than this, and that I may be oversimplifying their statements. But here are some things I've heard over and over:

"we have no evidence that the salt is causing any harm to corals"

"People always blame their salt when stuff dies"

"When you see something die, it's caused by something you did 2 weeks ago, not the water change you did this morning"

"If the salt really had something bad in it, everybody's corals would have died, not just some people's"

"Water changes can't kill your corals"

These are exactly the types of things you say when you're compelled to give your take in very general terms on your podcast or YouTube channel; based on a very basic glimpse at the "news story". But when you walk into the forest and see the trees, it all changes.

There was a weekend when my wife was out of town a few months ago and I went to the coffee shop and thought I'd catch up on R2R on a lazy Saturday morning. I bumped into the big Turkey Tropic Marin salt thread and read every single post from every single hobbyist there. This was the first I had heard of the situation and I had no preconceived notions or opinions.

What I found were extremely detailed reports from very seemingly intelligent reefers who, to the best of my ability in understanding their experiences, had corals straight up die due to them doing a water change.

That thread led to me the next Turkey salt thread, and the next Turkey salt thread. 4 and a half hours later, I think I read every single claim from everyone that reported problems on R2R, as well as a few FB reports and a few on other forums.

Mixed into these experiences were also a lot of me-too'ers who claimed them or their uncle also had everything die, and they recently did a water change. These people provide no detail, timeline, or credibility. And these are the same people who seem to be fueling the argument of those that say that people are full of it. These tag-alongs ultimately diminish the credibility of those that had genuine losses likely due to the salt.

Those that put the proper effort into explaining their experiences had changed absolutely nothing for months before their issues. They open a brand new bucket of salt and conduct a water change; then within hours or minutes, started seeing immediate negative signals in their corals, and then straight up death.

Now couple this with the observations upon opening the new container of salt:

• A strong chemical-like citrus odor similar to a cleaning or disinfecting product.
• Clarity, cloudiness and color issues when mixing the new salt
• Brown residue on the mixing vessel after mixing one batch of salt
• Odd flakes, shavings, caked elements, shards, and random objects from case to case

Now going back to all the podcasters, YouTubers, BRS and general content creators, their statements were so generalized that I was 100% confident that these people did NOT spend 4 and a half hours reading through every report in detail. In fact, I get the feeling that these people didn't read a single report. I believe they formed a general opinion based on the collective "history" of complainers – with the lowest common denominator in mind.

The exception to this would be Lou Ekus, who I know dealt with lots of people one on one.

All those content creators went on to praise Tropic Marin for "doing the right thing" and acknowledging the issue. But in my eyes, and everything I saw in response, they threw everyone reporting losses under the bus. They claimed that there is no evidence at all that the salt caused any losses.

BS

The fact that there could be other reasons for corals dying provided the exact ambiguity they needed to claim their own ambiguity in anyone's ability to provide "proof". But what I realized through the entire process is that there was actually no way to even possibly provide proof! It's the perfect out for TM. While so many praise TM for acknowledgement of some minor issue with clay or whatever they concluded, they pooped on the experiences of those who lost a lot of livestock.

And to provide just a little more important detail on the easy out...
Whatever the source of the issue with the Turkey salt was – it caused issues with sensitive corals, usually SPS. I point this out because it generally had no effect at all on less sensitive corals like softies and most LPS.

There were also inconsistencies from bucket to bucket. Some people would have issues with one bucket but not the next, which came from the exact same batch. This diminished the credibility of those making claims, and created challenges to get an admission of there actually being a problem. This was coupled by TM using the fact that a lot of affected reefers did not go out of their way to package and ship samples to Lou Ekus, or the fact that they threw away the bad salt, as if it's their responsibility to provide these things. These inconsistencies do not mean that the particular buckets that appeared to have problems were not anything but absolutely real problems.

So these inconsistencies in corals dying for some people and not others (remember, it mostly affected sensitive corals, and not everyone keeps the same corals), coupled with some buckets seeming to be OK, created a lot of ambiguity and a reason to deny the real severity of the issue.

Using a little common sense, it feels pretty easy to deduce that A) the Turkey salt just wasn't right and B) it seems to have killed corals.

For those wondering (the 2 people still reading this post) I'm not one of those people that had corals die, or any bad experience with this salt. I'm a Tropic Marin customer. I have no issue with Tropic Marin or Lou Ekus. I actually really love TM and actually just praised them in another thread today. I'm just really empathetic for those that lost LOTS of corals, and whose experiences are being rejected, made to be the butt of a joke, implied as stupid, etc.

 

[ReefRondo]

Ok let me see if I can do this eloquently and not work myself into a tizzy. This is kind of a hot button for me.

Most every content maker I follow, as well as the public figures associated with TM have made public-facing statements regarding the suspect salt from Turkey. I probably haven't heard every last podcaster and YouTuber in the world's take, but I've heard the positions taken by Lou Ekus (Tropic Marin), BRS, The Reefing Report, Mr Saltwater Tank via SaltwaterAquarium.com, and a few more YouTubers. The general position I perceive is that the hobbyists who have lost corals are full of it.

I get that their responses are much more nuanced than this, and that I may be oversimplifying their statements. But here are some things I've heard over and over:

"we have no evidence that the salt is causing any harm to corals"

"People always blame their salt when stuff dies"

"When you see something die, it's caused by something you did 2 weeks ago, not the water change you did this morning"

"If the salt really had something bad in it, everybody's corals would have died, not just some people's"

"Water changes can't kill your corals"

These are exactly the types of things you say when you're compelled to give your take in very general terms on your podcast or YouTube channel; based on a very basic glimpse at the "news story". But when you walk into the forest and see the trees, it all changes.

There was a weekend when my wife was out of town a few months ago and I went to the coffee shop and thought I'd catch up on R2R on a lazy Saturday morning. I bumped into the big Turkey Tropic Marin salt thread and read every single post from every single hobbyist there. This was the first I had heard of the situation and I had no preconceived notions or opinions.

What I found were extremely detailed reports from very seemingly intelligent reefers who, to the best of my ability in understanding their experiences, had corals straight up die due to them doing a water change.

That thread led to me the next Turkey salt thread, and the next Turkey salt thread. 4 and a half hours later, I think I read every single claim from everyone that reported problems on R2R, as well as a few FB reports and a few on other forums.

Mixed into these experiences were also a lot of me-too'ers who claimed them or their uncle also had everything die, and they recently did a water change. These people provide no detail, timeline, or credibility. And these are the same people who seem to be fueling the argument of those that say that people are full of it. These tag-alongs ultimately diminish the credibility of those that had genuine losses likely due to the salt.

Those that put the proper effort into explaining their experiences had changed absolutely nothing for months before their issues. They open a brand new bucket of salt and conduct a water change; then within hours or minutes, started seeing immediate negative signals in their corals, and then straight up death.

Now couple this with the observations upon opening the new container of salt:

• A strong chemical-like citrus odor similar to a cleaning or disinfecting product.
• Clarity, cloudiness and color issues when mixing the new salt
• Brown residue on the mixing vessel after mixing one batch of salt
• Odd flakes, shavings, caked elements, shards, and random objects from case to case

Now going back to all the podcasters, YouTubers, BRS and general content creators, their statements were so generalized that I was 100% confident that these people did NOT spend 4 and a half hours reading through every report in detail. In fact, I get the feeling that these people didn't read a single report. I believe they formed a general opinion based on the collective "history" of complainers – with the lowest common denominator in mind.

The exception to this would be Lou Ekus, who I know dealt with lots of people one on one.

All those content creators went on to praise Tropic Marin for "doing the right thing" and acknowledging the issue. But in my eyes, and everything I saw in response, they threw everyone reporting losses under the bus. They claimed that there is no evidence at all that the salt caused any losses.

BS

The fact that there could be other reasons for corals dying provided the exact ambiguity they needed to claim their own ambiguity in anyone's ability to provide "proof". But what I realized through the entire process is that there was actually no way to even possibly provide proof! It's the perfect out for TM. While so many praise TM for acknowledgement of some minor issue with clay or whatever they concluded, they pooped on the experiences of those who lost a lot of livestock.

And to provide just a little more important detail on the easy out...
Whatever the source of the issue with the Turkey salt was – it caused issues with sensitive corals, usually SPS. I point this out because it generally had no effect at all on less sensitive corals like softies and most LPS.

There were also inconsistencies from bucket to bucket. Some people would have issues with one bucket but not the next, which came from the exact same batch. This diminished the credibility of those making claims, and created challenges to get an admission of there actually being a problem. This was coupled by TM using the fact that a lot of affected reefers did not go out of their way to package and ship samples to Lou Ekus, or the fact that they threw away the bad salt, as if it's their responsibility to provide these things. These inconsistencies do not mean that the particular buckets that appeared to have problems were not anything but absolutely real problems.

So these inconsistencies in corals dying for some people and not others (remember, it mostly affected sensitive corals, and not everyone keeps the same corals), coupled with some buckets seeming to be OK, created a lot of ambiguity and a reason to deny the real severity of the issue.

Using a little common sense, it feels pretty easy to deduce that A) the Turkey salt just wasn't right and B) it seems to have killed corals.

For those wondering (the 2 people still reading this post) I'm not one of those people that had corals die, or any bad experience with this salt. I'm a Tropic Marin customer. I have no issue with Tropic Marin or Lou Ekus. I actually really love TM and actually just praised them in another thread today. I'm just really empathetic for those that lost LOTS of corals, and whose experiences are being rejected, made to be the butt of a joke, implied as stupid, etc.

Wow. I cannot thank you enough for this post. On behalf of every Reefer affected by this possible salt issue…thank you. Very kind of you to have taken so much time to write this. The fact I have two systems running from one Salt mixing station but no other equipment is shared and I’ve lost loads of sps corals in both suggests to me it is easily stripped down to what these systems share. I even got paranoid about plug in air fresheners but only one of these two tanks has one running, maybe 10 meters away from the tank and has been plugged in for years with the same refills. I am not just jumping on the band wagon and blaming this salt without checking literally every other option first. I have spent months reading up on STN and RTN and every coral pest under the sun including buying multiple microscopes to have a really close look at dying or even healthy corals in these systems for signs of pests. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks when I get my ICP back and have moved to Red Sea blue bucket.

 

[undermind]

Wow. I cannot thank you enough for this post. On behalf of every Reefer affected by this possible salt issue…thank you. Very kind of you to have taken so much time to write this. The fact I have two systems running from one Salt mixing station but no other equipment is shared and I’ve lost loads of sps corals in both suggests to me it is easily stripped down to what these systems share. I even got paranoid about plug in air fresheners but only one of these two tanks has one running, maybe 10 meters away from the tank and has been plugged in for years with the same refills. I am not just jumping on the band wagon and blaming this salt without checking literally every other option first. I have spent months reading up on STN and RTN and every coral pest under the sun including buying multiple microscopes to have a really close look at dying or even healthy corals in these systems for signs of pests. Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks when I get my ICP back and have moved to Red Sea blue bucket.

You're welcome! I appreciate the acknowledgement.

One thing I meant to mention but forgot: in all the cases I referenced of thoughtful, intelligent reefers who explained their experiences and suffered losses, nobody flamed TM. Nobody put them on blast, and were the first to admit that there could certainly be something they're missing. These aren't people whining about getting their money back. These are people that lost corals that they've put effort into growing, and are devastated and puzzled, and are describing their experiences often to ask if they're missing anything.

You're one of those @ReefRondo. I mean, you're sitting on 1000 bucks of the stuff (10 unopened buckets) and probably know you're not getting that back. Yet you never said a word about that (even though you have valid concerns). In the end, you've chosen to not use it and switch salts because it represents too much of a risk and you need to rule it out. That's tough, but intelligent. And you're not someone that anyone should use as an example of someone who doesn't know what they're doing or how to evaluate their losses.

 

[ReefRondo]

You're welcome! I appreciate the acknowledgement.

One thing I meant to mention but forgot: in all the cases I referenced of thoughtful, intelligent reefers who explained their experiences and suffered losses, nobody flamed TM. Nobody put them on blast, and were the first to admit that there could certainly be something they're missing. These aren't people whining about getting their money back. These are people that lost corals that they've put effort into growing, and are devastated and puzzled, and are describing their experiences often to ask if they're missing anything.

You're one of those @ReefRondo. I mean, you're sitting on 1000 bucks of the stuff (10 unopened buckets) and probably know you're not getting that back. Yet you never said a word about that (even though you have valid concerns). In the end, you've chosen to not use it and switch salts because it represents too much of a risk and you need to rule it out. That's tough, but intelligent. And you're not someone that anyone should use as an example of someone who doesn't know what they're doing or how to evaluate their losses.

Really appreciate your input into this thread.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Ok let me see if I can do this eloquently and not work myself into a tizzy. This is kind of a hot button for me.

Most every content maker I follow, as well as the public figures associated with TM have made public-facing statements regarding the suspect salt from Turkey. I probably haven't heard every last podcaster and YouTuber in the world's take, but I've heard the positions taken by Lou Ekus (Tropic Marin), BRS, The Reefing Report, Mr Saltwater Tank via SaltwaterAquarium.com, and a few more YouTubers. The general position I perceive is that the hobbyists who have lost corals are full of it.

I get that their responses are much more nuanced than this, and that I may be oversimplifying their statements. But here are some things I've heard over and over:

"we have no evidence that the salt is causing any harm to corals"

"People always blame their salt when stuff dies"

"When you see something die, it's caused by something you did 2 weeks ago, not the water change you did this morning"

"If the salt really had something bad in it, everybody's corals would have died, not just some people's"

"Water changes can't kill your corals"

These are exactly the types of things you say when you're compelled to give your take in very general terms on your podcast or YouTube channel; based on a very basic glimpse at the "news story". But when you walk into the forest and see the trees, it all changes.

There was a weekend when my wife was out of town a few months ago and I went to the coffee shop and thought I'd catch up on R2R on a lazy Saturday morning. I bumped into the big Turkey Tropic Marin salt thread and read every single post from every single hobbyist there. This was the first I had heard of the situation and I had no preconceived notions or opinions.

What I found were extremely detailed reports from very seemingly intelligent reefers who, to the best of my ability in understanding their experiences, had corals straight up die due to them doing a water change.

That thread led to me the next Turkey salt thread, and the next Turkey salt thread. 4 and a half hours later, I think I read every single claim from everyone that reported problems on R2R, as well as a few FB reports and a few on other forums.

Mixed into these experiences were also a lot of me-too'ers who claimed them or their uncle also had everything die, and they recently did a water change. These people provide no detail, timeline, or credibility. And these are the same people who seem to be fueling the argument of those that say that people are full of it. These tag-alongs ultimately diminish the credibility of those that had genuine losses likely due to the salt.

Those that put the proper effort into explaining their experiences had changed absolutely nothing for months before their issues. They open a brand new bucket of salt and conduct a water change; then within hours or minutes, started seeing immediate negative signals in their corals, and then straight up death.

Now couple this with the observations upon opening the new container of salt:

• A strong chemical-like citrus odor similar to a cleaning or disinfecting product.
• Clarity, cloudiness and color issues when mixing the new salt
• Brown residue on the mixing vessel after mixing one batch of salt
• Odd flakes, shavings, caked elements, shards, and random objects from case to case

Now going back to all the podcasters, YouTubers, BRS and general content creators, their statements were so generalized that I was 100% confident that these people did NOT spend 4 and a half hours reading through every report in detail. In fact, I get the feeling that these people didn't read a single report. I believe they formed a general opinion based on the collective "history" of complainers – with the lowest common denominator in mind.

The exception to this would be Lou Ekus, who I know dealt with lots of people one on one.

All those content creators went on to praise Tropic Marin for "doing the right thing" and acknowledging the issue. But in my eyes, and everything I saw in response, they threw everyone reporting losses under the bus. They claimed that there is no evidence at all that the salt caused any losses.

BS

The fact that there could be other reasons for corals dying provided the exact ambiguity they needed to claim their own ambiguity in anyone's ability to provide "proof". But what I realized through the entire process is that there was actually no way to even possibly provide proof! It's the perfect out for TM. While so many praise TM for acknowledgement of some minor issue with clay or whatever they concluded, they pooped on the experiences of those who lost a lot of livestock.

And to provide just a little more important detail on the easy out...
Whatever the source of the issue with the Turkey salt was – it caused issues with sensitive corals, usually SPS. I point this out because it generally had no effect at all on less sensitive corals like softies and most LPS.

There were also inconsistencies from bucket to bucket. Some people would have issues with one bucket but not the next, which came from the exact same batch. This diminished the credibility of those making claims, and created challenges to get an admission of there actually being a problem. This was coupled by TM using the fact that a lot of affected reefers did not go out of their way to package and ship samples to Lou Ekus, or the fact that they threw away the bad salt, as if it's their responsibility to provide these things. These inconsistencies do not mean that the particular buckets that appeared to have problems were not anything but absolutely real problems.

So these inconsistencies in corals dying for some people and not others (remember, it mostly affected sensitive corals, and not everyone keeps the same corals), coupled with some buckets seeming to be OK, created a lot of ambiguity and a reason to deny the real severity of the issue.

Using a little common sense, it feels pretty easy to deduce that A) the Turkey salt just wasn't right and B) it seems to have killed corals.

For those wondering (the 2 people still reading this post) I'm not one of those people that had corals die, or any bad experience with this salt. I'm a Tropic Marin customer. I have no issue with Tropic Marin or Lou Ekus. I actually really love TM and actually just praised them in another thread today. I'm just really empathetic for those that lost LOTS of corals, and whose experiences are being rejected, made to be the butt of a joke, implied as stupid, etc.

Awesome little note there. I was one of the two that read it, as well as a lot of the reports. I appreciate your view on this matter and draw similarities to the Vibrant debate. Don’t jump on me with that, but there were a lot of posts and threads of people losing corals and every single one would get shot down on the forum or online. Well low and behold, a couple years later, a few good soldiers test it. I’ve noticed the exact same thing on this topic. Granted, like you, I don’t put much faith in the comments regarding that my uncles, cousins, nephews, sister lost all her corals the day she did an automatic one percent water change after mixing a batch. There are many, what I would call, sound statements from people that have a better than average understanding of how things work. Nothing against TM from me personally. Other than, like many others, switched to TM after the whole BRS series. My salt bin was spotless for about a year or so I guess. Then, one day it wasn’t. I never for a second thought it was the salt. I immediately thought it was rodi system. I used that batch without issue. I cleaned the bin, verified my rodi was fine, and mixed another batch. Same thing. I used that batch, no issue. Changed the bin, and third time was the last. Same thing happened. I switched back to HW, no issue. Then with all the posts, I just said enough. Why blow so much money on salt? I switched back to IO. I didn’t lose anything, but thats my personal experience. I just think that the yelling from high up on the hill, with absolution, that it’s you…not product x, we’ll just sucks.

 

[ReefRondo]

Awesome little note there. I was one of the two that read it, as well as a lot of the reports. I appreciate your view on this matter and draw similarities to the Vibrant debate. Don’t jump on me with that, but there were a lot of posts and threads of people losing corals and every single one would get shot down on the forum or online. Well low and behold, a couple years later, a few good soldiers test it. I’ve noticed the exact same thing on this topic. Granted, like you, I don’t put much faith in the comments regarding that my uncles, cousins, nephews, sister lost all her corals the day she did an automatic one percent water change after mixing a batch. There are many, what I would call, sound statements from people that have a better than average understanding of how things work. Nothing against TM from me personally. Other than, like many others, switched to TM after the whole BRS series. My salt bin was spotless for about a year or so I guess. Then, one day it wasn’t. I never for a second thought it was the salt. I immediately thought it was rodi system. I used that batch without issue. I cleaned the bin, verified my rodi was fine, and mixed another batch. Same thing. I used that batch, no issue. Changed the bin, and third time was the last. Same thing happened. I switched back to HW, no issue. Then with all the posts, I just said enough. Why blow so much money on salt? I switched back to IO. I didn’t lose anything, but thats my personal experience. I just think that the yelling from high up on the hill, with absolution, that it’s you…not product x, we’ll just sucks.

Another very similar story…thanks for you input. Very much appreciated. I sent another ICP away today so will see what it says. Purely zero TDS RO water and tmpr salt mixed to 1.025

 

[areefer01]

Ok let me see if I can do this eloquently and not work myself into a tizzy. This is kind of a hot button for me.

Most every content maker I follow, as well as the public figures associated with TM have made public-facing statements regarding the suspect salt from Turkey. I probably haven't heard every last podcaster and YouTuber in the world's take, but I've heard the positions taken by Lou Ekus (Tropic Marin), BRS, The Reefing Report, Mr Saltwater Tank via SaltwaterAquarium.com, and a few more YouTubers. The general position I perceive is that the hobbyists who have lost corals are full of it.

I get that their responses are much more nuanced than this, and that I may be oversimplifying their statements. But here are some things I've heard over and over:

"we have no evidence that the salt is causing any harm to corals"

"People always blame their salt when stuff dies"

"When you see something die, it's caused by something you did 2 weeks ago, not the water change you did this morning"

"If the salt really had something bad in it, everybody's corals would have died, not just some people's"

"Water changes can't kill your corals"

These are exactly the types of things you say when you're compelled to give your take in very general terms on your podcast or YouTube channel; based on a very basic glimpse at the "news story". But when you walk into the forest and see the trees, it all changes.

There was a weekend when my wife was out of town a few months ago and I went to the coffee shop and thought I'd catch up on R2R on a lazy Saturday morning. I bumped into the big Turkey Tropic Marin salt thread and read every single post from every single hobbyist there. This was the first I had heard of the situation and I had no preconceived notions or opinions.

What I found were extremely detailed reports from very seemingly intelligent reefers who, to the best of my ability in understanding their experiences, had corals straight up die due to them doing a water change.

That thread led to me the next Turkey salt thread, and the next Turkey salt thread. 4 and a half hours later, I think I read every single claim from everyone that reported problems on R2R, as well as a few FB reports and a few on other forums.

Mixed into these experiences were also a lot of me-too'ers who claimed them or their uncle also had everything die, and they recently did a water change. These people provide no detail, timeline, or credibility. And these are the same people who seem to be fueling the argument of those that say that people are full of it. These tag-alongs ultimately diminish the credibility of those that had genuine losses likely due to the salt.

Those that put the proper effort into explaining their experiences had changed absolutely nothing for months before their issues. They open a brand new bucket of salt and conduct a water change; then within hours or minutes, started seeing immediate negative signals in their corals, and then straight up death.

Now couple this with the observations upon opening the new container of salt:

• A strong chemical-like citrus odor similar to a cleaning or disinfecting product.
• Clarity, cloudiness and color issues when mixing the new salt
• Brown residue on the mixing vessel after mixing one batch of salt
• Odd flakes, shavings, caked elements, shards, and random objects from case to case

Now going back to all the podcasters, YouTubers, BRS and general content creators, their statements were so generalized that I was 100% confident that these people did NOT spend 4 and a half hours reading through every report in detail. In fact, I get the feeling that these people didn't read a single report. I believe they formed a general opinion based on the collective "history" of complainers – with the lowest common denominator in mind.

The exception to this would be Lou Ekus, who I know dealt with lots of people one on one.

All those content creators went on to praise Tropic Marin for "doing the right thing" and acknowledging the issue. But in my eyes, and everything I saw in response, they threw everyone reporting losses under the bus. They claimed that there is no evidence at all that the salt caused any losses.

BS

The fact that there could be other reasons for corals dying provided the exact ambiguity they needed to claim their own ambiguity in anyone's ability to provide "proof". But what I realized through the entire process is that there was actually no way to even possibly provide proof! It's the perfect out for TM. While so many praise TM for acknowledgement of some minor issue with clay or whatever they concluded, they pooped on the experiences of those who lost a lot of livestock.

And to provide just a little more important detail on the easy out...
Whatever the source of the issue with the Turkey salt was – it caused issues with sensitive corals, usually SPS. I point this out because it generally had no effect at all on less sensitive corals like softies and most LPS.

There were also inconsistencies from bucket to bucket. Some people would have issues with one bucket but not the next, which came from the exact same batch. This diminished the credibility of those making claims, and created challenges to get an admission of there actually being a problem. This was coupled by TM using the fact that a lot of affected reefers did not go out of their way to package and ship samples to Lou Ekus, or the fact that they threw away the bad salt, as if it's their responsibility to provide these things. These inconsistencies do not mean that the particular buckets that appeared to have problems were not anything but absolutely real problems.

So these inconsistencies in corals dying for some people and not others (remember, it mostly affected sensitive corals, and not everyone keeps the same corals), coupled with some buckets seeming to be OK, created a lot of ambiguity and a reason to deny the real severity of the issue.

Using a little common sense, it feels pretty easy to deduce that A) the Turkey salt just wasn't right and B) it seems to have killed corals.

For those wondering (the 2 people still reading this post) I'm not one of those people that had corals die, or any bad experience with this salt. I'm a Tropic Marin customer. I have no issue with Tropic Marin or Lou Ekus. I actually really love TM and actually just praised them in another thread today. I'm just really empathetic for those that lost LOTS of corals, and whose experiences are being rejected, made to be the butt of a joke, implied as stupid, etc.

You should never post if it is going to get you worked up. No one is rejecting. I wanted to know why you felt the way you did. You answered. We don't agree not a big deal.

I would like to also point out the opposite is also true whereas fellow hobbyist feel ignored who have different experience using the same salt manufactured in Turkey. Without coral loss. Without smell. Without residual. And as such labeled fanboy, girl, or biased.

So when "I" read replies here or elsewhere from Tropic Marin staff I take it for what they say. Not as them skirting the issue or brushing it under the rug. There are hobbyist who used complete buckets without issue. Do their experiences not count?

Here is one of my buckets:

 

[jhuntstl]

You got the good salt. I bet a small percentage got the tainted stuff. Posting that your tank is fine with a bucket of Turkey salt next to it offers nothing productive to those affected.

And we're all biased. I have a box of replacement salt(that honestly is probably fine), but I'll never use it.

 

[areefer01]

You got the good salt. I bet a small percentage got the tainted stuff. Posting that your tank is fine with a bucket of Turkey salt next to it offers nothing productive to those affected.

This more or less proves my point. You and others ignore the fact that many have used the salt in quesiton without issues. When they reply the answer is oh, you got the good salt. I don't see "good salt" marked anywhere on my bucket.

For what it is worth I did send the information on the bucket to Tropic Marin for reference.

And we're all biased. I have a box of replacement salt(that honestly is probably fine), but I'll never use it.

You should have asked for a refund or sell it. No need to be out of money if you are uncomfortable with the product.

 

[jhuntstl]

I'm not ignoring that the majority had no issues with the salt. I'm saying it's irrelevant to those that were affected.

I'm happy for anyone who had no problems and continue to have success.

 

[undermind]

You should never post if it is going to get you worked up. No one is rejecting. I wanted to know why you felt the way you did. You answered. We don't agree not a big deal.

Don't worry, I'm not worked up.

I would like to also point out the opposite is also true whereas fellow hobbyist feel ignored who have different experience using the same salt manufactured in Turkey. Without coral loss. Without smell. Without residual. And as such labeled fanboy, girl, or biased.

You and others ignore the fact that many have used the salt in quesiton without issues. When they reply the answer is oh, you got the good salt. I don't see "good salt" marked anywhere on my bucket.

Umm, no one is ignoring you. The point is, this isn't about you. The issue in question in every single Turkey salt thread is that some people are having issues with the salt.

And what exactly IS your point when you say you're not having issues or smells? What is the point of posting a picture of your salt bucket in front of your tank? Are you saying that there is nothing wrong with any of the salt? Are you saying that the people who ARE having issues must be imagining it?

The fact that you don't have a problem is nothing more than one small data point. It doesn't mean anybody else's experiences who have lost corals are not true or invalid. Even though it feels to me that that's what you're implying.

The salt you're using is SUPPOSED to not kill stuff. So when you say your salt isn't killing your stuff, what do we need to do to make you not feel ignored? If you post a thread titled "My salt doesn't kill my stuff", are we obligated to reply to you so you don't feel ignored?

Everything you've said in response to me was already addressed in the very post above that you replied to. The only thing that your salt not killing stuff proves is that there is bad salt and there's good salt – like @jhuntstl said. And like I said earlier, my position is one of empathy and acknowledgement to those that have lost corals. If you opened your next bucket of Turkey salt and began experiencing coral loss, maybe you'd think differently about things.

 

[ReefRondo]

I have to say at this point I’m not sure I understand why anybody on a forum built around this fabulous hobby and love for all things salty would feel anything but empathy for this situation some of us are experiencing. I mean no harm to Tropic marin in this thread at all. I am simply trying to ascertain whether anybody else is having these similar issues. I will no longer be using this salt as the risks are just simply too high and not worth taking anymore. I wish to thank everybody for their input so far.

 

[areefer01]

Don't worry, I'm not worked up.

Good to hear.

Umm, no one is ignoring you. The point is, this isn't about you. The issue in question in every single Turkey salt thread is that some people are having issues with the salt.

Never made it about me nor did I imply that.

I said:
'ignore the fact that many have used the salt in question without issues'

Please don't try and change the narrative.

And what exactly IS your point when you say you're not having issues or smells? What is the point of posting a picture of your salt in front of your tank? Are you saying that there is nothing wrong with any of the salt? Are you saying that the people who ARE having issues must be imagining it?

Some forum users could see a post in a debate such as this as a troll. Or possibly posting without a reef tank or using the product. It isn't for anything else other than to say I do have a tank and used the salt in question.

Make sense?

The only thing that your salt not killing stuff proves is that there is bad salt and there's good salt

I guess. However this is where you and I disagree because I actually think it lends credence to what Tropic Marin reports on their assessment / analysis. If they are not finding anything, and there are users with, and without issues, what next? Do you want them to make something up?

– like @jhuntstl said. And like I said earlier, my position is one of empathy and acknowledgement to those that have lost corals. If you opened your next bucket of Turkey salt and began experiencing coral loss, maybe you'd think differently about things.

Not sure of the direction here but the only thing I can think of is that maybe it is about me and lack of empathy. I don't think that is the case at all. As far as my next bucket goes I'm not sure how to reply to this. Are you wishing me ill will?

To be honest with you I would blame myself first until I work my way through root cause.