True or False: All tangs (surgeonfish) need at least a 6ft tank to thrive.

[MnFish1]

What I am saying is that how you treat your fish, indeed any 'pet', is up to you; just recognize that they aren't human and don't ascribe human traits to them. People say their fish are 'happy and healthy' all the time. We can largely assess whether a fish is healthy, but happy? Maybe happy = not stressed? How would one judge that? Fish doesn't pace the glass = happy? Fish beats the hell out of newcomers = happy? Fish eats = happy? Maybe if a fish is cramped, but gets fed a lot and gets a girlfriend = happy? Or maybe none of those things make them happy and its all about having plenty of swimming and gliding room. I have an 8' tank and my yellow tang swims/glides the full length all the time.

You said you liked debate - so .

I have 3 tangs in a 125 gallon Red Sea - you can see my scaping in my signature - the entire bottom area is available for swimming area and the purple tang that I have goes throughout that area - and up onto the higher rock work as well. the 2 yellow tangs - basically hang out in very specific areas - except when coming out to eat. They do not appear stressed/cramped or in anyway 'abnormal' (thats my anecdotal experience).

I think its a little 'deluded' (and I dont mean that offensively - it was just the word you used) to believe that tank size is so important - when there are multiple other things people with large tanks might not be doing (i.e. tangs are usually schooling fish, tangs like to mate just like every other organism how many people keep more than 1 or 2 or 3?, tangs may not be compatible with other members of a tank (i.e. not found in their home range), the food they are being fed may be completely different than their natural diet, etc) the water flow is not the same as the ocean, etc. There just seem to be so many variables to keeping fish in general that to pick 1 and highlight it so much seems incorrect (I may be wrong obviously).

Couldn't do that in a 4' tank. People will do what they do, as will I, just don't delude yourself into believing that a cramped fish is well cared for. I don't think it is. Lots of people 'believe' lots of things ….. some that they've been abducted by aliens, some that the moon landings were faked, others that Nessie is alive and well, still others that tangs can thrive in a 4' tank. Doesn't make any of them true.

But I dont understand your logic when it comes to tank size. If I said hypothetically - well I think your 8 foot tank is too short - I have a 12 foot tank and my yellow tang glides/swims the full length all of the time - what would that mean? Does that mean your tank is too small at 8 feet (or that the fish is 'cramped')? (I don't think so). IMHO - there is no basis based on the logic you're using about your tang to say that a tang in a 4 foot tank is 'cramped' (and just like we cant define 'happiness' in fish - how do we determine that a fish in a 4 foot tank is 'cramped' (without knowing anything more about the tank than is x feet long)?

 

[User1]

I do not see a poll...However, it is false.

The onus is on the hobbyist to build an environment to house the coral and fish properly and for long term success. Nothing different than what you would do for any other pet be it hamster, dog, cat, or bird. Fish, and corals, are not commodities and in many cases are treated as such which lead to the introduction of something into a improperly setup tank which leads to other issues down the road. Be it re-homing due to aggression, size, or over running of the tank.

I know my bed side manors are probably not ideal or I am coming in hot but it is a soapbox / pet peeve of mine. I wouldn't own a GSD if I lived in an apartment nor would I own a different animal if I couldn't properly care for it. Maybe I should blame Mr. Fenner for his book - The Conscientious Marine Aquarist I'm teasing - I do not blame him. In fact, it is a wonderful book and this is where I am coming from. He pretty much laid it all out there.

Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[ZoWhat]

I say define "thrive"

In the wild.... tangs swim on avg 10+ miles a day up n down the coastline. Tangs swim 10 miles a day bc they dart and swim lightning fast. Speeds that can not be feasible in a glass box.

52,800 ft in 10 miles ÷4 foot tank = 13,200 times swimming back and forth in a 4ft tank to get to 10 miles....roughly 9 lengths of the tank per min over a 24hr period. Wow

8,800 times swimming back and forth in a 6ft tank...6 tank lengths per min

Sorta like us running a 5k in our empty garage space isn't it?...

 

[sde1500]

Sorta like us running a 5k in our empty garage space.....

Or in my spare bedroom, on a treadmill... lol
But yes, you do make a good point. However, how much of that is choice, and how much of that is swimming searching for food? For me, having seen full grown tangs, no way I'd add almost any of them to my 3 ft 65. Active fish need space. I would say its impossible to just give a length, it really needs all dimensions, LxWxH. A super long tank that is either very thin or very shallow won't do much for the fish either.

 

[ajhudson15]

You said you liked debate - so .

I have 3 tangs in a 125 gallon Red Sea - you can see my scaping in my signature - the entire bottom area is available for swimming area and the purple tang that I have goes throughout that area - and up onto the higher rock work as well. the 2 yellow tangs - basically hang out in very specific areas - except when coming out to eat. They do not appear stressed/cramped or in anyway 'abnormal' (thats my anecdotal experience).

I think its a little 'deluded' (and I dont mean that offensively - it was just the word you used) to believe that tank size is so important - when there are multiple other things people with large tanks might not be doing (i.e. tangs are usually schooling fish, tangs like to mate just like every other organism how many people keep more than 1 or 2 or 3?, tangs may not be compatible with other members of a tank (i.e. not found in their home range), the food they are being fed may be completely different than their natural diet, etc) the water flow is not the same as the ocean, etc. There just seem to be so many variables to keeping fish in general that to pick 1 and highlight it so much seems incorrect (I may be wrong obviously).



But I dont understand your logic when it comes to tank size. If I said hypothetically - well I think your 8 foot tank is too short - I have a 12 foot tank and my yellow tang glides/swims the full length all of the time - what would that mean? Does that mean your tank is too small at 8 feet (or that the fish is 'cramped')? (I don't think so). IMHO - there is no basis based on the logic you're using about your tang to say that a tang in a 4 foot tank is 'cramped' (and just like we cant define 'happiness' in fish - how do we determine that a fish in a 4 foot tank is 'cramped' (without knowing anything more about the tank than is x feet long)?

totally agree. and by saying they need larger than a 4' tank doesn't make it true either.

 

[ajhudson15]

I say define "thrive"

In the wild.... tangs swim on avg 10+ miles a day up n down the coastline. Tangs swim 10 miles a day bc they dart and swim lightning fast. Speeds that can not be feasible in a glass box.

52,800 ft in 10 miles ÷4 foot tank = 13,200 times swimming back and forth in a 4ft tank to get to 10 miles....roughly 9 lengths of the tank per min over a 24hr period. Wow

8,800 times swimming back and forth in a 6ft tank...6 tank lengths per min

Sorta like us running a 5k in our empty garage space isn't it?...

But you have to think why are they swimming that much. is it because they like the exercise or is it because they are searching for food whereas in our tanks they don't have to search that hard.

 

[ca1ore]

I think its a little 'deluded' (and I dont mean that offensively - it was just the word you used) to believe that tank size is so important - when there are multiple other things people with large tanks might not be doing (i.e. tangs are usually schooling fish, tangs like to mate just like every other organism how many people keep more than 1 or 2 or 3?, tangs may not be compatible with other members of a tank (i.e. not found in their home range), the food they are being fed may be completely different than their natural diet, etc) the water flow is not the same as the ocean, etc. There just seem to be so many variables to keeping fish in general that to pick 1 and highlight it so much seems incorrect (I may be wrong obviously).

Of course, but since the (7 year old ) title of the thread was about tank size, I chose to focus on that.

But I dont understand your logic when it comes to tank size. If I said hypothetically - well I think your 8 foot tank is too short - I have a 12 foot tank and my yellow tang glides/swims the full length all of the time - what would that mean? Does that mean your tank is too small at 8 feet (or that the fish is 'cramped')? (I don't think so). IMHO - there is no basis based on the logic you're using about your tang to say that a tang in a 4 foot tank is 'cramped' (and just like we cant define 'happiness' in fish - how do we determine that a fish in a 4 foot tank is 'cramped' (without knowing anything more about the tank than is x feet long)?

I'm flattered that you put my comment in the same sentence as logic. It was mostly intended tongue in cheek; though I do largely view my 8' 450 as both too short and too small since you asked . That's why I have a 1.600 gallon tank thread (though that's probably too small also). While I might view putting a 6" fish in a 36" cube (as example) as cruel, perhaps the fish would view regular meals and the absence of anything trying to eat it as an acceptable tradeoff.

 

[User1]

You know what would solve this debate? We need to set up a diving excursion, bring along one or two marine biologist, and go on a tang tagging expedition

Then we can collect the data and make some beautiful coastal maps that show just how far various tangs swim in a given day. Also see if they have any patterns, same sleeping quarters, etc. Being that I'm an active scuba diver, can use a break / vacation, long over due on a vacation, and also a data hoarder I think this checks multiple boxes hobby wise that I can justify the cost.

Who is with me?

 

[ReefJake123]

Guys this is majorly false i have three tangs in a 55 gallon tank a yellow tang blue tang and a kole tang and these are the most healthy tangs I have ever seen in my life

 

[sde1500]

Guys this is majorly false i have three tangs in a 55 gallon tank a yellow tang blue tang and a kole tang and these are the most healthy tangs I have ever seen in my life

 

[ReefJake123]

See I think it’s more based on the personality of the tang than just they aren’t meant to babe together in small tanks I have a tomini tang in a 13.5 gal so tell me why isn’t he dead and not healthy? exactly[emoji23]

 

[AngryMike2016]

I just ate a bacon cheeseburger and I am not dead, so how is a bacon cheeseburger not healthy? Exactly.

 

[sde1500]

I just ate a bacon cheeseburger and I am not dead, so how is a bacon cheeseburger not healthy? Exactly.

Not worth wasting time on trolling.

 

[AngryMike2016]

Not worth wasting time on trolling.

You're right; I should not have fed the troll.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

You're right; I should not have fed the troll.

I think your analogy works because people claim, well I have X and it is just fine without saying I have 3 tangs in my 55g that have lived together for 3 years and they're fine. For all we know he may have 3 2" tangs in a 55g for a month and all is good. Tangs can live like 40+ years. Yellow tangs can get pretty big. Even when I see a Naso tang or even worse, a vlamingi tang in a 180, I often wonder how long before it goes crazy. I've dove in Hawaii and seen Achilles tangs, Naso and unicorn tangs, and I have to say, they get HUGE! like beyond 12". Can a juvenile live in a 90g, sure, but not for more than a year or so. I have a yellow tang about to go in my RS reefer 450, which is a 5 foot tank with my Kole tang and I a nervous about that, but I am going to give it a shot because I have seen several instances where it did work but I am full prepared to remove the yellow at any time if it comes to that.

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[ca1ore]

You know what would solve this debate? We need to set up a diving excursion, bring along one or two marine biologist, and go on a tang tagging expedition

I’m in - you had me at ‘you know what’.

 

[ca1ore]

Can we keep the comments real and the sarcasm to a minimum??

Unless it’s funny!!!

BTW, I do agree with the comment from a few years back, or maybe it was yesterday and just seems like years, about what defines thriving. For me, success with a fish means that it survives under my care for at least a year. Once there, I expect long-lived fish to be with me for a decade and plan for growth accordingly.

 

[hart24601]

I am inclined to agree no species should really be kept in anything shorter 6ft and many species probably need a lot more if considering the full adult size. I wonder how many tangs just end up stunted like discus do. Stunted discus can still live long lives and even breed. I kept bristletooth in a 120 and personally thought they were cramped but they were pretty big when I got them. I don’t know how we can judge how happy and healthy fish are, perhaps a stunted 4” tang in a small tank is happy? I have no idea. I personally feel many tangs shouldn’t be kept in home tanks at all, but I don’t knock ppl that do.

 

[James Tucker]

After raising a hippo tang from the size of a quarter to 6 inches long, I can say that the species can live in a 48 inch long by 20 inch wide/high tank for quite some time without visible or health issues. Depending on thier personality / temperament and quarantine practices.

Once mine neared 6 inches though, I could almost feel the fish’s agitation and aggression building. Can a hippo tang at 6inches live in a 48 inch tank? Yeah. Might it start getting stressed, aggressive, and start to get sick? Maybe/probably.

Every time I saw the fish start to get more aggressive, getting a bigger/longer tank seemed to stem it for a few years.

I’m looking to re-home it now into a bigger longer tank and start over with a tiny one. I don’t have the space to go 60 inches and I want my dori to keeping swimming swimming swimming.