YOYOYOReefer
Valuable Member
damsels ok we all strive for different looks. mY reefs grow corraline ,not green hair algae.
MEHaffy good plan with doing your own QT
i actually break down qt to stage 1 and 2 QT tanks 1 month and 1 month min.
Trying to determine ICK or Velvet and next steps
MEHaffy good plan with doing your own QT
i actually break down qt to stage 1 and 2 QT tanks 1 month and 1 month min.
damsels are not mean
Valuable Member
Mine too. Havent seen GHA in a decade tbh not sure if it even still exists in my tank. But GHA is faster and wins in a young tank. Especially if there's nothing in that eats GHA.
OP
OP
I'm changing out about 50 gallons a day and so far its very slow going getting Salinity down. As of tonight Salinity at 31. I should be able to do more over the weekend because I will not be at work and I can do a couple water changes per day.
Jay Hemdal
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The rate actually should be at least four times higher than that. To be really thorough and safe, four 4% FW replacements per 24 hours would be needed - that would be 200 gallons per day. I've gone much faster than that - 1/4 of the tank being replaced with FW at a time.
My concern here now is that this may not be ich - taking it into hypo this slowly won't begin to control ich, and fish that have had ich this long would be very sick by now.
Jay
OP
OP
Jay thanks for the info, just so I better understand is a faster reduction in salinity needed to Eradicate the ICK or just needed to prevent disease from progressing. As of this morning I do not see any signs of ICK on any of my fish. I could speed up and continue with Hypo my RODI does about 150gpd or I could slowly raise salinity back to normal level. I had just thought slower change would be less stress on fish.
what would you suggest
what would you suggest
Jay Hemdal
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The fast drop in salinity is required in cases of active ich, so that the ich doesn't get worse and kill the fish while you are slowly dropping it. If the fish have no symptoms, there is less of an issue taking it more slowly.
Coming out of hyposalinity is different - when doing that, you do need to go more slowly. Fish handle drops in salinity well, but rises must be done over 5 to 7 days.
Jay
OP
OP
So I think I am going to proceed with the Hypo as planned. I just don’t want to always be stressed wondering when it going to come back. I will start counting days after I get to the proper Hypo level.
I have read and been studying your article on Biosecurity and identified were I had breakdowns.
I now have 4 QT tank and will most likely get 2 more I will have QT for fish, for inverts and for corals all separate.
All coral and inverts will QT fallow for 76 days and fish per Jays QT protocol
Thanks to all for help on this.
I have read and been studying your article on Biosecurity and identified were I had breakdowns.
I now have 4 QT tank and will most likely get 2 more I will have QT for fish, for inverts and for corals all separate.
All coral and inverts will QT fallow for 76 days and fish per Jays QT protocol
Thanks to all for help on this.
hawkeyejp82
Active Member
Let me preface this as a freshwater guy who only is just now setting up a salt tank. It appears you have a FOWLR display here and I'm banking on this being ICH from what I've seen of it in fresh tanks. Given the lack of coral what is the tolerance of your fish to higher temperatures?? I know most reefers keep there water at 77 or 78F because any higher would harm the coral but most fish can tolerate 80F. I say this because ICH actually can't survive at temperatures above 80F and I have found it by far and away the most effective way to rid ICH over any medications. Medications for ICH simply kill the offspring but not the full grown parasites you see with your eyes.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Umm in Jay's thread about diesese protocol he mentions if run tank fallow ( without fish ) then if can raise temperature to 81- 82 degrees then it speeds up the life cycle of the ich so they go through their stages quicker so = less time needed for fallow.
This how I interpret it anyway
This how I interpret it anyway
hawkeyejp82
Active Member
Yeah that makes sense if you treat with medication and raise the temperature together its a very effective process. The fish might be uncomfortable with temperature above 80F but in my experience with FW fish they tolerate it just make sure its a slow increase not sudden. Then afterwards comes the very slow process of fin recovery from where the ick got em.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Was thinking Information on why fallow period drops lower in days needed if raise temperature came from Jay's thread called " current diesese protocol" buy cant see no mention if it in there or in his other thread called " 45 day fallow " all 10 pages just read lol.
What I was referring to was a " fallow" period so no fish at all in tank say example move fish to qt to medicate then fallow dt for 45 days if raise temperature to 81 degrees as speeds up the parasites life cycle stages so less time needed.
hawkeyejp82
Active Member
I see. Well the same effect temperature has on the parasite it has on your fish you warm the temperature the fish metabolism increases which allows them to fight it off better and faster. I can't say that I have ever had success once ick is all over the fish the way these photographs look unfortunately. Usually I am successful when I catch it early on a fin before it is on the body and then I get it treated with temp increases and sometimes medication and allow the fins to heal. If it is all over the body like that there is a good chance it has impacted the gills.
OP
OP
I am confused and struggling to make a decision on how to move forward. I just wish I fully understood whats going on with my tank.
I had a small family emergency and had to leave town yesterday and just got home. So I was not able to make any progress lowering salinity. Salinity is currently at 30.8 There is NO sign of anything wrong with any of the fish, No spots, nothing. I have 14 fish in this tank and everyone looks healthy is eating and no signs a parasite or disease. So do I slowly raise salinity or continue to lower and proceed with Hypo.
The fish in the tank are.
White Cheek tang
Blue Hippo tang
Sailfin tang
Naso Tang
Scopas Tang
Clown tang
5 Blue Green chromis
Leopard wrasse
2 pajama cardinal
I had a small family emergency and had to leave town yesterday and just got home. So I was not able to make any progress lowering salinity. Salinity is currently at 30.8 There is NO sign of anything wrong with any of the fish, No spots, nothing. I have 14 fish in this tank and everyone looks healthy is eating and no signs a parasite or disease. So do I slowly raise salinity or continue to lower and proceed with Hypo.
The fish in the tank are.
White Cheek tang
Blue Hippo tang
Sailfin tang
Naso Tang
Scopas Tang
Clown tang
5 Blue Green chromis
Leopard wrasse
2 pajama cardinal
hawkeyejp82
Active Member
So you are saying your fish that were in the same tank with the powder brown aren't displaying any symptoms. If that is the case I will say it doesn't matter the ick is in the substrate and will decide to re-infect at a time of its choosing usually occurs with the most stressed fish with the weakest immune system first. As I said before I come from a FW background so I've always used copper and temperature increases to rid out the ick problem. I wouldn't lower salinity if you have coral without placing the coral in a different tank first. If you remove the coral then yeah go for the hypo from what I have read get it to 1.009 S.G. salinity with a refractometer. Alternatively you can just live with the ick in your system and observe your fish very closely and if you observe white spots immediately put them in a non coral/invert QT with a increase in temperature and copper treatment. I know you said it would be hard to catch your fish but that maybe the best option. I'm not an expert but I do believe some fish have immunity to ick especially if they have had it before. My observations of ick in FW are it always impacts the fish that is lower in the hierarchy/getting picked on by other fish getting stressed etc first. I know in the FW community there is a saying that every tank has ick and there is nothing you can do about it so perhaps eradication attempts are futile.
OP
OP
Right now I have pulled the few coral that I have out along with the hermits and snails. I was on my way to salinity of 1.009 but when Jay said I may not actually have ICK I stated second guessing what to do.
Yes so far only the one fish has shown any sign of ICK I may have noticed extremely minimal like 2-3 spots on a Blue hippo a couple months back and maybe a few spots on the Scopas. But right now I see nothing on any fish.
The dilemma is that I plan on this being a full mixed reef so if I am going HYPO now is the time to do so.
I don't think I have a chance at catching any fish in the tank it is 1100 gallons with approx 600 lbs of live rock and the rock is joined with MARCO 400 cement.
If the consensus is that there is good chance I really had ICK and its just not showing right now but still in the tank I should move forward with Hypo while there are no corals because once I fill the tank with coral that would be nearly impossible to do.
Marine ich is not the same parasite as freshwater ich.
It will not die off at high temps, just reproduce faster (which is helpful when fallow).
OP
OP
The answer is yes I am and yes I already have dropped some coin. I am going to move the UV I have on my 5000 gallon koi pond sometime in the next couple days. I would have done it over the weekend but I was out of town. Thanks for the suggestion.
Pimba
Active Member
Hello @mehaffydr , can you give an update on the situation of your fish. Have they all been through ICH fine with no losses? Did you do any medications.
OP
OP
SO my update is good but not great. After a lot of trouble making a decision on what to do because at one point I was positive I had ICK but then it was only on one fish and it went away so there was uncertainty. I did not move forward with the HYPO which in hind site I should have. After a couple weeks the original fish redeveloped the ick and then 2 more fish had it so apparently the Ick had dropped of of the fish and then hatched. So a couple weeks back I started lowering Salinity to go HYPO but with a 1100 gallon tank and 1300 gallon system my 150 GPD per day RODI was just not adequate so lowering Salinity was going way too slow. Last week I ordered a new 200 GPD RODI from BRS and paid 2nd day air charges to get it. So I am now running 2 RODI units you can see in the pic below. This was the right thing to do as it really got the process moving. So as of yesterday salinity was at 1.009 and I did loose the 1 fish that originally had the ICK. A whitecheek tang. The bad thing is if I would have just moved forward with the Hypo from the beginning I most likely would not have lost the fish and would be well into the process right now. This whole experience has pushed me to really get more serious about QT and Bio security. I have started building an area for 3 QT tanks and bought duplicates of any equipment that will be used so that I have QT equipment and DT equipment. Below is a pic of the new QT area. It will have 3ea 20gallon long aquariums each with their own HOB filter.
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