Trying to reduce Nitrates and Phosphates but worried about using GFO, PhosphateE or NoPox

GuppyHJD · Jan 13, 2022

My tank is just over a year old (120g), and my nutrients are holding higher than most seem to keep theirs at. The tank is starting to grow Green Hair Algae so I am looking to attack my numbers a bit harder. I am considering using Red Sea NoPox, or Brightwell Phosphate-e or Brightwell MicrobactorCLEAN. I do not understand carbon dosing. Recommendations on safe way to lower the Nitrates and Phosphates. I really do not want to harm the corals that are starting to grow.

ALK - 9.4
Nitrate - 28.2
Phosphates - 0.12 (was 0.19 prior to macro algae in sump)
pH - 8.0
Calc - 420
Mag - 1340
I have tried several things to reduce the Nitrate and Phosphates -
1) Increased skimming settings
2) Added red macro algae in the refugium that runs 12 hrs opposite the main lighting
3) Increased water changes (30gal monthly) - the Nitrates dropped to 21.0 but Phosphates held at 0.13

Thank you for your help.

BoneDoc · Jan 13, 2022

If your nitrates are that high try running your refugium 24/7. I do and my nitrates are 3.3-3.6 despite heavy heavy feedings.

wmb0003 · Jan 13, 2022

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

This explains carbon dosing pretty well

wmb0003 · Jan 13, 2022

Also your parameters aren’t that bad. I would be concerned if your nitrates continue to rise. Why do you want to lower the nitrates? How do your corals look?

GuppyHJD · Jan 13, 2022

wmb0003 said:
Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

This explains carbon dosing pretty well

Thank you

GuppyHJD · Jan 13, 2022

wmb0003 said:
Also your parameters aren’t that bad. I would be concerned if your nitrates continue to rise. Why do you want to lower the nitrates? How do your corals look?

Corals are looking ok. I want to lower the phosphates to get rid of the GHA and will move the Nitrates lower to keep them in ratio?

Lbrdsoxfan · Jan 13, 2022

Those numbers are pretty good imho but I don't run a ulns system and I'm heavily stocked. My phosphate is 4x yours currently and my nitrate test at a constant 20. I'm testing at .43 on phosphate and I just dumped in some phosguard I had lying around to bring it down some. I'm also changing about the same quantity of water monthly at 8 gal a week.

I've used nopox and it works it just takes time and ramp it up slowly. The microbacter7 will help with dissolving organics, but it won't remove phosphate. I use it weekly for water clarity. I have some phosphate e and tried it out at 1/2 strength, It didn't do much for me at this point.

Lavey29 · Jan 14, 2022

Have you considered dosing PNS probio which is a natural bacteria that lowers nitrates and phosphate?

GuppyHJD · Jan 14, 2022

Lavey29 said:
Have you considered dosing PNS probio which is a natural bacteria that lowers nitrates and phosphate?

I have not...never heard of it. I will research it - thank you

Lavey29 · Jan 14, 2022

GuppyHJD said:
I have not...never heard of it. I will research it - thank you

Algaebarn sells it

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 14, 2022

It can be hard to beat algae by reducing phosphate without hurting other things, but it is certainly fine to use an appropriately low dose of NOPOX (or other carbon dose such as DIY; for nitrate)and/or GFO (for phosphate) to reduce them. Just go slow because nutrients too low is worse than nutrients too high.

wmb0003 · Jan 14, 2022

GuppyHJD said:
Corals are looking ok. I want to lower the phosphates to get rid of the GHA and will move the Nitrates lower to keep them in ratio?

What does your cuc look like? Any utilitarian fish(Foxface, tangs, etc.) that eat algae?

GuppyHJD · Jan 14, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It can be hard to beat algae by reducing phosphate without hurting other things, but it is certainly fine to use an appropriately low dose of NOPOX (or other carbon dose such as DIY; for nitrate)and/or GFO (for phosphate) to reduce them. Just go slow because nutrients too low is worse than nutrients too high.

Thank you

GuppyHJD · Jan 14, 2022

Just spent 30 minutes pulling clumps of GHA out of the tank. I had to stop - the Starry Blenny was beating my hand up. The GHA is on the rocks very solid. Would peroxide work at all against this stuff?
I will start with a half dose of NOPOX for the next few days and see what the testing shows. It's water change weekend too.
Thank you

Kenneth Wingerter · Jan 14, 2022

To add to the great point Randy made above, it's good to go slow with NOPOX (and carbon dosing in general) because of the risk of hypoxia. In other words, adding a lot of labile carbon to a system at once (particularly where there is a high nutrient concentration) can cause a bloom of heterotrophic aerobic bacteria, which can rapidly deplete dissolved oxygen. To add to Lavey29's recommendation, the live bacterium in PNS ProBio is facultatively anaerobic. So, it consumes little or no oxygen through its assimilatory (e.g. photoheterotrophy) and respiratory (e.g. denitrification) processes.

There's no need to dose carbon with these microbes; they are capable of utilizing many sources of organic carbon that other heterotrophs cannot (such as detritus) and additionally can utilize inorganic carbon (i.e. CO2) if necessary, just like a plant. But yes, using anaerobes such as these to cycle N and P is generally a slower process; some hobbyists might find that frustrating, especially if they're anxious to see a rapid and dramatic nutrient reduction. But I think it's comparatively safer (at least in theory) for all the reasons above and more.

GuppyHJD · Jan 17, 2022

Kenneth Wingerter said:
To add to the great point Randy made above, it's good to go slow with NOPOX (and carbon dosing in general) because of the risk of hypoxia. In other words, adding a lot of labile carbon to a system at once (particularly where there is a high nutrient concentration) can cause a bloom of heterotrophic aerobic bacteria, which can rapidly deplete dissolved oxygen. To add to Lavey29's recommendation, the live bacterium in PNS ProBio is facultatively anaerobic. So, it consumes little or no oxygen through its assimilatory (e.g. photoheterotrophy) and respiratory (e.g. denitrification) processes.

There's no need to dose carbon with these microbes; they are capable of utilizing many sources of organic carbon that other heterotrophs cannot (such as detritus) and additionally can utilize inorganic carbon (i.e. CO2) if necessary, just like a plant. But yes, using anaerobes such as these to cycle N and P is generally a slower process; some hobbyists might find that frustrating, especially if they're anxious to see a rapid and dramatic nutrient reduction. But I think it's comparatively safer (at least in theory) for all the reasons above and more.

Thank you

RGoltz · Jan 17, 2022

I had a good experience using NoPoX to reduce NO3 and PO4. However, I found that the dose needs to be far lower than recommended and I also had best results when dosing very slowly on a doser. That said if you have a doser NoPoX is a very simple, effective, and cost-efficient way of managing nutrients.

jphilip813 · Jan 20, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It can be hard to beat algae by reducing phosphate without hurting other things, but it is certainly fine to use an appropriately low dose of NOPOX (or other carbon dose such as DIY; for nitrate)and/or GFO (for phosphate) to reduce them. Just go slow because nutrients too low is worse than nutrients too high.

Yep...I started dosing NoPox (half as recommended) for my 20gal about 3.5 weeks ago...now tested my phosphates... 0.00 nitrates .030 last two test phosphates have stood at 0.00. I just turned off the NOPox today, Corals look good/eating expanding. However, I see (reddish/brown) on my sand bed in the shadows of some of my corals.

ALK 8.58 / CAL 444/ MAG 1380 (Neptune Trident)
Phos 0.00 / Nitrate 0.30 (Hanna Checker & API)
Using ChemiPure Blue in the AIO refugium section
I saw an article Randy posted on Food Grade for Prescribed for Life TriSodium Phosphate Anhydrous. I just purchased some last night from Amazon to begin the phosphate dosing.

Food Grade Phosphate on Amazon

GuppyHJD · Jan 20, 2022

jphilip813 said:
Yep...I started dosing NoPox (half as recommended) for my 20gal about 3.5 weeks ago...now tested my phosphates... 0.00 nitrates .030 last two test phosphates have stood at 0.00. I just turned off the NOPox today, Corals look good/eating expanding. However, I see (reddish/brown) on my sand bed in the shadows of some of my corals.

ALK 8.58 / CAL 444/ MAG 1380 (Neptune Trident)
Phos 0.00 / Nitrate 0.30 (Hanna Checker & API)
Using ChemiPure Blue in the AIO refugium section
I saw an article Randy posted on Food Grade for Prescribed for Life TriSodium Phosphate Anhydrous. I just purchased some last night from Amazon to begin the phosphate dosing.

Food Grade Phosphate on Amazon

I started NoPox six days ago. The Nitrate has moved from 28.4 to 24.8. The Phosphates have moved from .15 to .09.