Trying to understand total lack of pods in tank

[NickHolmes]

I have a total lack of pods (copepods and amphipods) in my refugium and tank. The refugium is quite large and has liverock and a huge ball of chaeto that is lit 24 hours a day. Added a bottle of mixed pods from a local supplier a month ago directly to the refugium but still nothing.

Turned the grow light off last night and came back a few hours later with a torch and not a single pod in sight. There are no predators in there.

The tank is otherwise healthy and predominantly SPS with good growth over the last 2 years. The only thing I struggle with is very low Nitrates but dose Potassium nitrate to get it around 5.

KH: 8.2
Po4: 0.024
No3: 5

I don't test calcium and magnesium as I dose Tropic Marin All for Reef and Carbo Calcium, I should test magnesium as I've heard it can be a bit low for some using this combo

The display has quite a few inverts, cleaner shrimp, harlequin shrimp and hermits

Any ideas on this?

 

[Bucs20fan]

Are you acclimating the pods before you just dump them In? All the pods ive bought from algae barn recommends a temp and salinity acclimation period for them. They are very fragile and a temp or salinity swing will not be kind to them.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I have a total lack of pods (copepods and amphipods) in my refugium and tank. The refugium is quite large and has liverock and a huge ball of chaeto that is lit 24 hours a day. Added a bottle of mixed pods from a local supplier a month ago directly to the refugium but still nothing.

Turned the grow light off last night and came back a few hours later with a torch and not a single pod in sight. There are no predators in there.

The tank is otherwise healthy and predominantly SPS with good growth over the last 2 years. The only thing I struggle with is very low Nitrates but dose Potassium nitrate to get it around 5.

KH: 8.2
Po4: 0.024
No3: 5

I don't test calcium and magnesium as I dose Tropic Marin All for Reef and Carbo Calcium, I should test magnesium as I've heard it can be a bit low for some using this combo

The display has quite a few inverts, cleaner shrimp, harlequin shrimp and hermits

Any ideas on this?

they may just be small and hard to see as well

 

[SlugSnorter]

Are you acclimating the pods before you just dump them In? All the pods ive bought from algae barn recommends a temp and salinity acclimation period for them. They are very fragile and a temp or salinity swing will not be kind to them.

While I agree with this, most pods are quite hardy

 

[Dinkins Aquatic Gardens]

Copepods are extremely small, and in a large tank will be especially hard to see. They prefer to live on the rocks and sand where the detritus is, especially if you keep your glass very clean.

Also, in a month they will maybe have doubled in size twice, but their population won’t have really exploded yet. That takes a little more time.

That said, pods are quite resilient and if they have detritus to eat and no predators, they’re still alive in there.

 

[NickHolmes]

Are you acclimating the pods before you just dump them In? All the pods ive bought from algae barn recommends a temp and salinity acclimation period for them. They are very fragile and a temp or salinity swing will not be kind to them.

Yes, same procedure I would use for other livestock

they may just be small and hard to see as well

Had a healthy population of pods in a previous tank and didn't struggle to see them

While I agree with this, most pods are quite hardy

Agreed but acclimating is easy so worth doing it just to make sure

 

[SlugSnorter]

Yes, same procedure I would use for other livestock

Had a healthy population of pods in a previous tank and didn't struggle to see them

Agreed but acclimating is easy so worth doing it just to make sure

do you know what species of pods you got?

do you have Ghost flatworms?

Is the supplier reputable?

 

[NickHolmes]

M

do you know what species of pods you got?

do you have Ghost flatworms?

Is the supplier reputable?

Tisbe and amphipods. Supplier is the best we have locally. Clearly visible when I held the bottle up to a light. No flatworms

 

[PotatoPig]

Any tigger pods will get wiped out quickly and don’t reproduce well in the tanks, so don’t last long, leaving mostly only the little pod species.

The little ones have only had a month, you’re about 2-3 generations max, so they won’t have had time to build up a large population and are likely hanging out on rocks and sand where the feeding is better, and you’ll never see them there. The most recent generation is also still probably too small to even see.

Three ways to see them once their numbers are up:

1. Turn off all lights, including room lights, and put a flashlight up against the glass. Look at the rear side from around the corner. Once you have enough pods they’re colonizing the glass you’ll see *tiny* specks moving around.

2. Turn off your return pump and wait about 5 minutes or so and then light up your filter sock from the side with a strong flashlight and look down it from above. There will be a bunch of the little things swimming around in there.

3. If you have any rubble in your sump take a small piece, or a small piece of chaeto, and put it on a fresh mixed saltwater container (like a glass cup). Leave it overnight and light it up from the side (in a dark room) while looking in from the top.

I don’t think I actually saw any in my tank until almost 4 months after adding them but now they’re everywhere- can still only see them by lighting them up in the dark though.

 

[NickHolmes]

Any tigger pods will get wiped out quickly and don’t reproduce well in the tanks, so don’t last long, leaving mostly only the little pod species.

The little ones have only had a month, you’re about 2-3 generations max, so they won’t have had time to build up a large population and are likely hanging out on rocks and sand where the feeding is better, and you’ll never see them there. The most recent generation is also still probably too small to even see.

Three ways to see them once their numbers are up:

1. Turn off all lights, including room lights, and put a flashlight up against the glass. Look at the rear side from around the corner. Once you have enough pods they’re colonizing the glass you’ll see *tiny* specks moving around.

2. Turn off your return pump and wait about 5 minutes or so and then light up your filter sock from the side with a strong flashlight and look down it from above. There will be a bunch of the little things swimming around in there.

3. If you have any rubble in your sump take a small piece, or a small piece of chaeto, and put it on a fresh mixed saltwater container (like a glass cup). Leave it overnight and light it up from the side (in a dark room) while looking in from the top.

I don’t think I actually saw any in my tank until almost 4 months after adding them but now they’re everywhere- can still only see them by lighting them up in the dark though.

Thank you for the detailed response, I've tried steps 1 and 3 before, I don't have filter socks but did find a single amphipod when I was changing out carbon from the reactor

 

[NickHolmes]

I'm not overly concerned about this anomaly but a pair of Mandarins have been on my list for a very long time

 

[Keko21]

Have you been dosing phyto as well? While not necessary for survival it will absolutely speed up their reproduction. I was in the same boat when I started, I dumped a bottle of algae barn pods in my fuge and phyto...nothing. Waited two weeks and put 2 jars in....nothing. Tried a different brand of pods from my lfs. By week five my entire system was overrun! Feed live phyto and they will come around!

 

[Dinkins Aquatic Gardens]

When starting a new culture, we notice that there is significant lag until large numbers of adults become visible. By this point you’ll have tons of sub 100 micron but relatively few adults.

 

[cpschult]

M

Tisbe and amphipods. Supplier is the best we have locally. Clearly visible when I held the bottle up to a light. No flatworms

Amphipods will eat copepods I believe.

 

[Jay'sReefBugs]

Let flim algea build on your main display glass it will draw out some from your substrate. There's a big myth about copepods going into macro algae eating it ( which they can't physically do) and reproducing. Your looking in the wrong place copepods will always go for rock / substrate over your macro. Amps are a different story they do enjoy macro and eating it as well .

 

[NickHolmes]

Have you been dosing phyto as well? While not necessary for survival it will absolutely speed up their reproduction. I was in the same boat when I started, I dumped a bottle of algae barn pods in my fuge and phyto...nothing. Waited two weeks and put 2 jars in....nothing. Tried a different brand of pods from my lfs. By week five my entire system was overrun! Feed live phyto and they will come around!

Yes but I probably could have used more

When starting a new culture, we notice that there is significant lag until large numbers of adults become visible. By this point you’ll have tons of sub 100 micron but relatively few adults.

Thanks, I’ll keep on monitoring

Amphipods will eat copepods I believe.

Let flim algea build on your main display glass it will draw out some from your substrate. There's a big myth about copepods going into macro algae eating it ( which they can't physically do) and reproducing. Your looking in the wrong place copepods will always go for rock / substrate over your macro. Amps are a different story they do enjoy macro and eating it as well .

Thanks, the liverock is pretty much touching the side of the glass in the fuge so I should be able to see some movement close up. Also harvested a handful or 2 of Chaeto and shook it around in a bucket of tank water, no amphipods came out

 

[NickHolmes]

Thanks all for the input, I’ll keep on monitoring it

 

[ohana888]

i've tried different vendors (hollback, dinkins, nutramar, dragon) and LFS for tigger & tisbe pods for past 2 years. always temp acclimated and then dumped in my 40BR sump filled with only rubble rock & pond matrix bio media. don't use filter socks and have plenty of detritus. haven't deep cleaned in over a year. left the return pump off overnight yet still no signs of life weeks later. it has become an expensive endeavor so i plan to harvest amphipods (and ghost shrimps) later this month from local pier during low tide. i'd rather spend the funds on new corals.