Turf Algae Solution?

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CodyRVA

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You definitely have it for it to be spreading around like that.

Any chance you're willing to try a UV filter to see if that keeps if from spreading while you're putting the effort in to knocking it back?

I don't see a lot of coraline in these photos either....that should be taking real estate from the green algae over time. Is that just my view through the photos or is coraline lacking??

It's my understanding that you need a massive UV filter to make much of an impact? I won't rule it out, but definitely not my first choice though, for obvious reasons.

The tank is loaded with coralline, the algae is actually growing on the coralline that's encrusted on the back of the glass.
 
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I watched this BRS video series and got the Kessil light they tested. My chaeto grew an insane amount after I added it. Ever since I created something out-competing it in my refugium, I have ZERO nuisance algae in my display, not even on the flow nozzles way up close to my lights.




I've never had an algae problem in 3 years prior to this episode with a simple GE LED bulb and a home depot clamp light. Not to sound bitter lol, I'll spare you my strong feelings against this so called "investment." I did upgrade my bulb about a year ago. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, my chaeto grows like a boss, requires thinning once a week.
 

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It'd be a lot more fun to see BRS's tests with 2-3 coral in the front of their teset tanks.

(Not so interested where they're heading with the next test they announced. Ho hum.)

It's my understanding that you need a massive UV filter to make much of an impact?

Not really – check out my Dino thread and do UV how folks there are doing...use the same sizing guidelines. (Dino's are tougher than algae, FYI.)

The tank is loaded with coralline, the algae is actually growing on the coralline that's encrusted on the back of the glass.

If coraline's natural defenses to keep clean of pests is being overwhelmed and green algae are able to settle and grow on it (not a good thing...part of coraline's immune function), I have to turn my hairy eyeball back to the excess organic carbon load in the system. That means the carbon reactor, but it also means the chaeto ball if it's large and productive – both exude organic carbon into the tank water. (Corals do too, but not the same type.)

I'm gonna place my final vote with taking the carbon reactor offline and drastically thinning out the chaeto ball.

There should be no downside to either one. Even if there is, reactivate the reactor and don't trim the chaeto anymore. No real downside. :) And if the theory is right....

I'm not sure if the coraline might also be suffering from the very low nutrient situation on top of other things, but if try the experiment you'll know – without having to add anything to the tank.
 
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It'd be a lot more fun to see BRS's tests with 2-3 coral in the front of their teset tanks.

(Not so interested where they're heading with the next test they announced. Ho hum.)



Not really – check out my Dino thread and do UV how folks there are doing...use the same sizing guidelines. (Dino's are tougher than algae, FYI.)



If coraline's natural defenses to keep clean of pests is being overwhelmed and green algae are able to settle and grow on it (not a good thing...part of coraline's immune function), I have to turn my hairy eyeball back to the excess organic carbon load in the system. That means the carbon reactor, but it also means the chaeto ball if it's large and productive – both exude organic carbon into the tank water. (Corals do too, but not the same type.)

I'm gonna place my final vote with taking the carbon reactor offline and drastically thinning out the chaeto ball.

There should be no downside to either one. Even if there is, reactivate the reactor and don't trim the chaeto anymore. No real downside. :) And if the theory is right....

I'm not sure if the coraline might also be suffering from the very low nutrient situation on top of other things, but if try the experiment you'll know – without having to add anything to the tank.

Thanks for the feedback. Would the turf/chaeto out compete coral/coralline for food? Keep in mind this turf junk showed up shortly after I took my pellet reactor offline (no clue if there's really a link there), I reintroduced the pellets about 4-6 weeks ago.

Also, my weekly tests have shown an uptick in demand for both CA and ALK; I can't imagine my coral/coralline has stalled or lacks nutrients. If they were starving or stressed I would imagine seeing a spike in CA ALK causing me to lower my dosages. No idea if any of this is related, but IME almost all if not everything is directly or indirectly related in one way shape or another!

Thanks again!
 

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I have to imagine that it had to come in on something and had been lurking.

The switch off of the pellet reactor may have played in its spread – every disturbance is a chance for algae to get an edge – but we aren't mainly figuring nutrient limitation anyway, we're figuring microbialization...the coraline is growing, but not that well...hence the ability for green algae to set down roots on it and start growing. It's settling on your frag plugs with at least equal vigor.

It's still possible that nutrient limitation is playing a role as all critters are not equal in their ability to acquire nutrients at low levels. Bacteria always win – and it can be at the expense of most other organisms if they aren't naturally (carbon) limited.

If all this sounds like it's un-actionable, we may have to make a list of what you can change and what can't be changed and work backward from there. I'd disable the pellets and whittle the chaeto back to a golfball or take it out. Maybe at least reduce it's light?

Given the rate of spread on this stuff I'd consider a cheapie UV filter too.
 
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I have to imagine that it had to come in on something and had been lurking.

The switch off of the pellet reactor may have played in its spread – every disturbance is a chance for algae to get an edge – but we aren't mainly figuring nutrient limitation anyway, we're figuring microbialization...the coraline is growing, but not that well...hence the ability for green algae to set down roots on it and start growing. It's settling on your frag plugs with at least equal vigor.

It's still possible that nutrient limitation is playing a role as all critters are not equal in their ability to acquire nutrients at low levels. Bacteria always win – and it can be at the expense of most other organisms if they aren't naturally (carbon) limited.

If all this sounds like it's un-actionable, we may have to make a list of what you can change and what can't be changed and work backward from there. I'd disable the pellets and whittle the chaeto back to a golfball or take it out. Maybe at least reduce it's light?

Given the rate of spread on this stuff I'd consider a cheapie UV filter too.

Well, I thought we wanted to beef up the Fuge light to out compete the display turf algae? The display is definitely not taken over, most would say it's not even worth mentioning, but i'm not one to let things linger until they get out of hand either. My main concern is the frags. Things have been in their current state for several weeks, I wonder if simply adding to my CUC would be enough to hedge the algae.

I do think you're on to something about the coralline; I did notice large pieces breaking off of the back of the glass several months ago. This has since stopped and new growth has taken place. Keep in mind there are no "patches" of algae growing on the coralline, only small single pieces.

I pruned my chaeto again, it's about the size of a golf ball now. I'd say it goes from about the size of a softball to a volley ball once a week.
 

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The CUC has to be able to get to it obviously, so if the frags are in the sand bed or you have CUC that get get to the rack then it's at least a "maybe". I'd try it.

If you can turn up lights on the fuge, were you holding off doing that up to now? Try it! :) I'm not sure if increasing the hours will be equivalent to raising intensity. If you already have your fuge light at "100%" then try more hours. Upgrading is always an option.

With all that and your chaeto trimmed down you can watch for any changes in the tank over the next 3-4 weeks and then act accordingly by trying the next thing on your list if it doesn't work out....lots of options left.

If it does work, then "you dunnit"! ;)
 
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The CUC has to be able to get to it obviously, so if the frags are in the sand bed or you have CUC that get get to the rack then it's at least a "maybe". I'd try it.

If you can turn up lights on the fuge, were you holding off doing that up to now? Try it! :) I'm not sure if increasing the hours will be equivalent to raising intensity. If you already have your fuge light at "100%" then try more hours. Upgrading is always an option.

With all that and your chaeto trimmed down you can watch for any changes in the tank over the next 3-4 weeks and then act accordingly by trying the next thing on your list if it doesn't work out....lots of options left.

If it does work, then "you dunnit"! ;)

I'm assuming if i go with ceriths, turbos, and nassarius (other uses) they would be able to get to my frag rack; any specific type of cerith? I can't control the power on my fuge light, just increase the time; I have not yet set it to run 24/7.

I think i'm going to invest in my CUC, keep things the way they are, closely monitor my chemistry, and go from there. As mentioned above, any recommendations on specific kinds of ceriths or turbos, or any others i should get... chitons, nerites, etc...?
 

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Just remember that you're still #1 on the CUC...you DO want your crew beefed up enough that they can do their job – but having "enough" doesn't grant them more power....they still have tiny mouths and won't each a "giant" mature stalk of algae. So it's your job to give them a patch of nubbins to start with (not mature algae growth) and it's their job to keep it that way.

I'd favor getting more or even all Ceriths if you're fine with keeping a little responsibility for yourself but having a safer frag rack.

Turbos are much larger and will do more work, but they can have that "bull in the china shop" effect in some tanks. If your tank is no china shop, then favor more Turbos – they are beasts. :D

Still have limited expectations if they're confronted with large stands of mature algae.....or if there's lots of detritus for them to eat. If the algae is not too palatable, they'll clean out your tank's detritus stores in preference to the algae. Depeding on the detritus load available, that can make your snails seem like they aren't doing much. Manage CUC numbers and types accordingly.....some snails (like Nassarius) focus more exclusively on detritus and less on algae, so you can balance things as you see them develop.
 
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Just remember that you're still #1 on the CUC...you DO want your crew beefed up enough that they can do their job – but having "enough" doesn't grant them more power....they still have tiny mouths and won't each a "giant" mature stalk of algae. So it's your job to give them a patch of nubbins to start with (not mature algae growth) and it's their job to keep it that way.

I'd favor getting more or even all Ceriths if you're fine with keeping a little responsibility for yourself but having a safer frag rack.

Turbos are much larger and will do more work, but they can have that "bull in the china shop" effect in some tanks. If your tank is no china shop, then favor more Turbos – they are beasts. :D

Still have limited expectations if they're confronted with large stands of mature algae.....or if there's lots of detritus for them to eat. If the algae is not too palatable, they'll clean out your tank's detritus stores in preference to the algae. Depeding on the detritus load available, that can make your snails seem like they aren't doing much. Manage CUC numbers and types accordingly.....some snails (like Nassarius) focus more exclusively on detritus and less on algae, so you can balance things as you see them develop.

Sounds good, i'll look into a more diverse CUC and monitor my chemistry over the next several weeks. I'll follow up with some progress with how things are going. Thanks for the input!
 

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You need a multiprong effort :

1: feed less
2: decrease nitrate phosphate
3: manual removal
4: get 2 blue tuxedo urchin: the best bang for your buck as a CUC.
5: patience

Good luck
 
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(Check out Global microbialization of coral reefs if to have some reading time during the wait and tell what you think! :))

My knee jerk reaction is skepticism because folks have been successfully carbon dosing for some time; as well as keeping large refugiums. I don't question the validity of the argument, seems like this is like most other things in this hobby... a balance.

That being said, i'd be more than happy to take my pellet reactor offline and replace with a more robust CUC!
 
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You need a multiprong effort :

1: feed less
2: decrease nitrate phosphate
3: manual removal
4: get 2 blue tuxedo urchin: the best bang for your buck as a CUC.
5: patience

Good luck

Thanks! Just looked at the blue tuxedo urchin, my fear is I don't have enough algae in my display. As mentioned, it's by no means taking over my tank; I don't want to starve one of these guys. My sump on the other hand...
 

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My knee jerk reaction is skepticism because folks have been successfully carbon dosing for some time; as well as keeping large refugiums. I don't question the validity of the argument, seems like this is like most other things in this hobby... a balance.

That being said, i'd be more than happy to take my pellet reactor offline and replace with a more robust CUC!

Indeed! :) This isn't necessarily a strike against carbon dosing or refugiums per se either. Just reading the symptoms of your tank as best I can with the knowledge (still left!) rattling in my noggin. I can definitely be wrong! :D That's why this isn't a game of Simon Sez....it's more like a game of "check out the reference I read to see if you think about the same thing I thought when I read it, cuz even in aquariums the clues seems to add up the same...and your aquarium seems to have some of the clues present."

If taking the reactor down "solves" it, all we could say is that you might have been overdoing it with carbon compared to the tank's current condition. That's not saying much more against carbon dosing than "things look better now". ;)

After all, underestimating the potency of a pellet reactor is hardly unheard of....I know you're running with a small amount of pellets, but how much carbon is that? Depends on too many factors to say – that's the issue with pellet reactors I think. In contrast, we can compute how many carbon atoms per dose are going into the tank with things like vinegar...which, for example, seems to have far less reports of "problems" compared with pellets. (Not trying to sell vinegar dosing....just comparing.)


The good thing (I think) is that this doesn't seem to be urgent....no corals seem to be in danger of anything in the short term – frag plugs can be dipped in straight H2O2 in at least some cases to give them some breathing room – so you can take your time, make small moves and spend time gauging effectiveness of whatever you try.

Remember that nutrient changes can take 3-5 weeks to fully play out.....much longer in some cases. Makes every step a judgement call and I guess a test of patience too. Gotta love it!! ;Facepalm;Happy
 
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Indeed! :) This isn't necessarily a strike against carbon dosing or refugiums per se either. Just reading the symptoms of your tank as best I can with the knowledge (still left!) rattling in my noggin. I can definitely be wrong! :D That's why this isn't a game of Simon Sez....it's more like a game of "check out the reference I read to see if you think about the same thing I thought when I read it, cuz even in aquariums the clues seems to add up the same...and your aquarium seems to have some of the clues present."

If taking the reactor down "solves" it, all we could say is that you might have been overdoing it with carbon compared to the tank's current condition. That's not saying much more against carbon dosing than "things look better now". ;)

After all, underestimating the potency of a pellet reactor is hardly unheard of....I know you're running with a small amount of pellets, but how much carbon is that? Depends on too many factors to say – that's the issue with pellet reactors I think. In contrast, we can compute how many carbon atoms per dose are going into the tank with things like vinegar...which, for example, seems to have far less reports of "problems" compared with pellets. (Not trying to sell vinegar dosing....just comparing.)


The good thing (I think) is that this doesn't seem to be urgent....no corals seem to be in danger of anything in the short term – frag plugs can be dipped in straight H2O2 in at least some cases to give them some breathing room – so you can take your time, make small moves and spend time gauging effectiveness of whatever you try.

Remember that nutrient changes can take 3-5 weeks to fully play out.....much longer in some cases. Makes every step a judgement call and I guess a test of patience too. Gotta love it!! ;Facepalm;Happy

Thanks for the additional input! I'm going to see how things pan out with things as they are and go from there. The only thing I do want to change is my CUC; specifically the diversity of it. Do you think an urchin would be a good idea as suggested above or should I stick with ceriths and turbos?
 

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Thanks! Just looked at the blue tuxedo urchin, my fear is I don't have enough algae in my display. As mentioned, it's by no means taking over my tank; I don't want to starve one of these guys. My sump on the other hand...

You worry about starvation when you get there.
You could always Start feeding more so algae’s come. Believe me they won’t starve.

You can always give it to someone else or LFS.
 

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I also had turd algae that two long treatments of Fluco knocked back but never destroyed. I’ve been using vibrant and it’s completely gone now. After about a month and a half at one dose a week.
 

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Have you tried pin cushion urchins? Every one I've ever had loves all kinds of algae - turf, shaving brush, gracilaria, coralline (usually as a last resort if I forget to feed nori), etc. If you can get past their love of decorating themselves with frags and stray snails, they're great on algae and fun to watch. As long as you keep an eye on nitrates, they're more hardy than you'd think.
 

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