Two fish died overnight

[iratoha]

Hi. My aquarium is about 1.5 months old, 50 gallons. Last week I startet ice treatment with Kick-Ich, heavy infection system because three of our tangs had a lot of spots. We have Forza FZ7 up canister filter, so according to instructions we removed carbon cartridge and turned off uv sterilizer. Today in the morning we found powder tang and bicolor butterfly dead. We checked water and Nitrate and ammonias are pretty high. Internet says it could be because we removed carbon filter. So now i’m confused. We still have two infected tangs?

 

[exnisstech]

Sounds like you may want to step back and do some more research before starting back up. I would recommend reading up on disease control /prevention, QT along with tank requirements for the fish you want to keep. There aren't many tangs that are good fit in a 50g much less 3 of them.

EDIT : Also if you did in fact have ich you'll need to run the tank fallow or every fish you add will be exposed to it.

Much of the info you need can be found here.

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi. My aquarium is about 1.5 months old, 50 gallons. Last week I startet ice treatment with Kick-Ich, heavy infection system because three of our tangs had a lot of spots. We have Forza FZ7 up canister filter, so according to instructions we removed carbon cartridge and turned off uv sterilizer. Today in the morning we found powder tang and bicolor butterfly dead. We checked water and Nitrate and ammonias are pretty high. Internet says it could be because we removed carbon filter. So now i’m confused. We still have two infected tangs?

Kick ich is a reef safe tonic and simply does not work like most reef safe meds
Likely from the parasite which will overtake the fish
Do a good water change and switch to coppersafe and apply treatment to level 2.25 monitored with a Hanna brand copper test kit
Add aeration during treatment and highly recommend would be to leave display tank fishless (fallow) for 6-8 weeks to allow any parasites to die off without a fish to host on.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi. My aquarium is about 1.5 months old, 50 gallons. Last week I startet ice treatment with Kick-Ich, heavy infection system because three of our tangs had a lot of spots. We have Forza FZ7 up canister filter, so according to instructions we removed carbon cartridge and turned off uv sterilizer. Today in the morning we found powder tang and bicolor butterfly dead. We checked water and Nitrate and ammonias are pretty high. Internet says it could be because we removed carbon filter. So now i’m confused. We still have two infected tangs?

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Kick Ich does not have a solid record of curing Ich in moderate to advanced cases. Once you’ve lost fish, that indicates a severe outbreak.

Coppersafe or hyposalinity are two better options, but that may be too late based on having fish dying already. These treatments take 2 to 3 days to work. Neither treatment can be used in the presence of invertebrates.

Can you post a video of the remaining tangs?
You said there was an ammonia issue - what is that level?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

How many fish do you have? Normally will add 1-2 fish, then wait a month to add the next 1-2, and so on.... sounds like you are going very fast. Also as mentioned 50 gallons is too small for even one tang, let alone several.

 

[iratoha]

Kick ich is a reef safe tonic and simply does not work like most reef safe meds
Likely from the parasite which will overtake the fish
Do a good water change and switch to coppersafe and apply treatment to level 2.25 monitored with a Hanna brand copper test kit
Add aeration during treatment and highly recommend would be to leave display tank fishless (fallow) for 6-8 weeks to allow any parasites to die off without a fish to host on.

We didn’t want to kill our invertebrate's (crabs, shrimps, snails and anemones), so they recommended Kick-ich.

 

[iratoha]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Kick Ich does not have a solid record of curing Ich in moderate to advanced cases. Once you’ve lost fish, that indicates a severe outbreak.

Coppersafe or hyposalinity are two better options, but that may be too late based on having fish dying already. These treatments take 2 to 3 days to work. Neither treatment can be used in the presence of invertebrates.

Can you post a video of the remaining tangs?
You said there was an ammonia issue - what is that level?

We flash them already We didn’t want to kill our invertebrates so they recommended Kick-ich

 

[iratoha]

How many fish do you have? Normally will add 1-2 fish, then wait a month to add the next 1-2, and so on.... sounds like you are going very fast. Also as mentioned 50 gallons is too small for even one tang, let alone severa

5 clown fish, blue tang, resjardini tang, 5 blue damsels. Also shrimps, snails, crabs and anemone

 

[exnisstech]

5 clown fish, blue tang, resjardini tang, 5 blue damsels. Also shrimps, snails, crabs and anemone

If disease doesn't take the fish out aggression should at least whittle them down to 2 or 3.
I'm sorry but that is an insane number of fish to put into a 50g that is only 1.5 months old. Did you do any research at all?

 

[iratoha]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Kick Ich does not have a solid record of curing Ich in moderate to advanced cases. Once you’ve lost fish, that indicates a severe outbreak.

Coppersafe or hyposalinity are two better options, but that may be too late based on having fish dying already. These treatments take 2 to 3 days to work. Neither treatment can be used in the presence of invertebrates.

Can you post a video of the remaining tangs?
You said there was an ammonia issue - what is that level?

Here are ammonia and nitrate

 

[iratoha]

If disease doesn't take the fish out aggression should at least whittle them down to 2 or 3.
I'm sorry but that is an insane number of fish to put into a 50g that is only 1.5 months old. Did you do any research at all?

Well, we were taking the advice from the pet store owners. They checked our water three or four times and said we were good to go. The aquarium was set up for over a month before we put anything into it. Actually for six weeks the fish look like they were doing great and had no issues with three tangs and a 50 gallon tank. I have seen tangs in our local marine store that are in 20 gallon tanks.
So we know the tank was established well, however; whether you have 2 tangs or 5 tangs if the nitrates and the ammonia spikes it is what it is. I think it has everything to do with decomposition of food.
I get it. There are a lot of experts in the world, and everybody has an opinion.
Our research was based off the knowledge of people at the saltwater/marine stores. Who like you seem to be very knowledgeable.
Do appreciate your advice though..

 

[MnFish1]

Hi. My aquarium is about 1.5 months old, 50 gallons. Last week I startet ice treatment with Kick-Ich, heavy infection system because three of our tangs had a lot of spots. We have Forza FZ7 up canister filter, so according to instructions we removed carbon cartridge and turned off uv sterilizer. Today in the morning we found powder tang and bicolor butterfly dead. We checked water and Nitrate and ammonias are pretty high. Internet says it could be because we removed carbon filter. So now i’m confused. We still have two infected tangs?

If you could post some pictures that would be great - Kick Ich may not be as effective as stated - I'm going to assume your fish had Ich - since you're mentioning spots - this requires a copper treatment for 30 days in a hospital tank. Since you're doing that - I would add the 2 treatments of prazipro recommended in the protocol at the top of the page. I would not have turned the UV light off. Lastly - most important - what is your ammonia level - are you talking free or total ammonia? How are you testing. You should do an immediate water change (the amount) depending on the ammonia level.

 

[iratoha]

If you could post some pictures that would be great - Kick Ich may not be as effective as stated - I'm going to assume your fish had Ich - since you're mentioning spots - this requires a copper treatment for 30 days in a hospital tank. Since you're doing that - I would add the 2 treatments of prazipro recommended in the protocol at the top of the page. I would not have turned the UV light off. Lastly - most important - what is your ammonia level - are you talking free or total ammonia? How are you testing. You should do an immediate water change (the amount) depending on the ammonia level.

We used API ammonia test kit. Ammonia level was 0.50. We did partial water change and will check water again in couple hours. Unfortunately we don’t have hospital tank. What pictures do you need?

 

[Maritimer]

The tangs at your local marine store are intended to be in 20-gallon tanks for a few days to a week, and then moved into customers' (much larger) tanks. They will grow large - the blue can approach a foot long, and I've seen Dejardini tangs nearly the size of dinner plates with their fins extended.

There's a possibility that your five clownfish will form a harem social structure, with a breeding pair and three smaller juveniles ... but there's also a possibility that two will pair up and kill the other three.

The folks at your fish store are in business to make money, and it seems like they're willing to do that by logging any sale they can get, even if it's into an untenable situation. Unfortunately, local fish stores are thin on the ground these days; there are good ones out there, but not all of them are - and sometimes the one in your neighborhood is pretty much the only game in town.

The advice you're getting from Vetteguy, Jay Hemdal and MNFish is spot-on, and what you should do to ensure maximum fish survival. If you don't want to set up a hospital tank, absolutely do the biggest water change you can to bring that ammonia down, and turn on your UV (Hopefully, it's bigger than what's advised for the size of your system, and not an underpowered water clarifier).

Good luck!

~B.

 

[exnisstech]

Well, we were taking the advice from the pet store owners. They checked our water three or four times and said we were good to go. The aquarium was set up for over a month before we put anything into it. Actually for six weeks the fish look like they were doing great and had no issues with three tangs and a 50 gallon tank. I have seen tangs in our local marine store that are in 20 gallon tanks.
So we know the tank was established well, however; whether you have 2 tangs or 5 tangs if the nitrates and the ammonia spikes it is what it is. I think it has everything to do with decomposition of food.
I get it. There are a lot of experts in the world, and everybody has an opinion.
Our research was based off the knowledge of people at the saltwater/marine stores. Who like you seem to be very knowledgeable.
Do appreciate your advice though..

I'm sorry to hear you were given bad advice from your local store. This happens much to often and you and your fish unfortunately pay the price. I'll let some if the more knowledgeable folks that are already here replying assist. Appologies for being harsh. It's just that so much information is available that what has happened should not have happened. Finding out who can be trusted for accurate information is a challenge and unfortunately the lfs more often than not are a source of misinformation. I wish you well. There is help here that can guide you through this.

 

[iratoha]

The tangs at your local marine store are intended to be in 20-gallon tanks for a few days to a week, and then moved into customers' (much larger) tanks. They will grow large - the blue can approach a foot long, and I've seen Dejardini tangs nearly the size of dinner plates with their fins extended.

There's a possibility that your five clownfish will form a harem social structure, with a breeding pair and three smaller juveniles ... but there's also a possibility that two will pair up and kill the other three.

The folks at your fish store are in business to make money, and it seems like they're willing to do that by logging any sale they can get, even if it's into an untenable situation. Unfortunately, local fish stores are thin on the ground these days; there are good ones out there, but not all of them are - and sometimes the one in your neighborhood is pretty much the only game in town.

The advice you're getting from Vetteguy, Jay Hemdal and MNFish is spot-on, and what you should do to ensure maximum fish survival. If you don't want to set up a hospital tank, absolutely do the biggest water change you can to bring that ammonia down, and turn on your UV (Hopefully, it's bigger than what's advised for the size of your system, and not an underpowered water clarifier).

Good luck!

~B.

Well, we have no UV light in there. As far as bringing the ammonia down, I did buy some type of solution said it would do that hopefully it does.
As far as knowledge, you will not find a more knowledgeable person then the person that sold me the fish the guy is an encyclopedia for marine aquariums, and bitcoin..
I changed about 20% of the water. My wife was told to take out the carbon filter so we could treat them for ich. I’m no expert, but I don’t think that was a good idea so I put the carbon filter back in.
I’ll test the water in a couple hours. Hopefully the ammonia is down and the nitrate.
Do appreciate all your input, though..

 

[Maritimer]

Well, we have no UV light in there. As far as bringing the ammonia down, I did buy some type of solution said it would do that hopefully it does.
As far as knowledge, you will not find a more knowledgeable person then the person that sold me the fish the guy is an encyclopedia for marine aquariums, and bitcoin..
I changed about 20% of the water. My wife was told to take out the carbon filter so we could treat them for ich. I’m no expert, but I don’t think that was a good idea so I put the carbon filter back in.
I’ll test the water in a couple hours. Hopefully the ammonia is down and the nitrate.
Do appreciate all your input, though..

Ah.
Reading through the thread, I thought you had one. UVs can help reduce the number of ich parasites in the free-swimming stages, but they should ideally be oversized for the system.

The person who sold you the fish may very well be knowledgeable ... but is he also ethical?

I do wish you - and your fish - well.

~B.

 

[iratoha]

Ah.
Reading through the thread, I thought you had one. UVs can help reduce the number of ich parasites in the free-swimming stages, but they should ideally be oversized for the system.

The person who sold you the fish may very well be knowledgeable ... but is he also ethical?

I do wish you - and your fish - well.

~B.

We have Prime 16hd reef lamp. And it have some uv, but i’m not sure it’s the same uv that you mean. And our filter has Built in 7W uv sterilization. Is this what you talking about? As I understand there are different types of uv and I don’t know if we have the right one.

 

[KrisReef]

The 7 watt uv sterilizer is the only thing you have that can help at the moment. If you have a lamp, put that in and turn it on, please.

And for carbon use, carbon absorbs medication, so that is why you were instructed to remove that.

You need a larger UV sterilizer for 50 gallons but 7 is better than zero.

The UV LED's in your light are not going to do anything for ich.

Sorry that your fish ruined the day.

 

[iratoha]

The 7 watt uv sterilizer is the only thing you have that can help at the moment. If you have a lamp, put that in and turn it on, please.

And for carbon use, carbon absorbs medication, so that is why you were instructed to remove that.

You need a larger UV sterilizer for 50 gallons but 7 is better than zero.

The UV LED's in your light are not going to do anything for ich.

Sorry that your fish ruined the day.

We put carbon filter back. People here said, that this treatment not effective in any case can you recommend good uv sterilizer? Fish are the one we should say sorry to