ULM + BB + Super Simple Shallow 80g SPS Office Build

[Petcrazyson]

I gave TSA a call today, and no luck on the Black Tang I left my name and number with Jed(/b?) the fish manager there, and he said he will take a look. I have also found several WYSIWYG vendors online as well, so I will be sniping for this guy in the coming weeks!

All I can say is: Hopefully they can get their hands one soon. Your in good hands with Jed. I’ll try to help you out and call TSA for a request and look for some trusty near or online sources.

as well as a few different Bristle-Tooth tang species as well (Convict, Mimic-Lemon Peel, Mimic Eibli) and they all did very well

You do mean: “ a few different Bristle-Tooth tang species as well as Convict, Chocolate, and Mimic Eibli right? And NOT as “bristle-tooth tangs like Convict, Chocolate, and Mimic Eibli? Just checking

When I upgrade I will go big: ~ 400 gal (72" x 48" x 30" tall), but likely wont do it until we move into a new house - right now, not sure when that will be...

Where’s the cash cash cash emoji?

Yes - hope we run into each other. I'm ~ 6'4", blonde, viking beard... can't miss me.

Have I seen you at the store before? Visit often? You like to wear a cap? DISCLAIMER I don’t look at people on purpose tentatively

If you couldn’t tell I’m a big emoji guy

 

[Petcrazyson]

Hope you can help me out here are these Cyano and on top of that Dinos? Wanna make sure. Ways to treat other than sterilizer or bacteria(l) products?

 

[naterealbig]

I’ll try to help you out and call TSA for a request and look for some trusty near or online sources.

This would be amazing!!! I won't hold you to it, but please let me know if you hear anything good!

You do mean: “ a few different Bristle-Tooth tang species as well as Convict, Chocolate, and Mimic Eibli right? And NOT as “bristle-tooth tangs like Convict, Chocolate, and Mimic Eibli? Just checking

Did I mess these up? Maybe they aren't technically Bristle-tooth tangs.... But they have a similar body shape w/ mouth underneath the head, and exhibit similar feeding patterns... Straighten me out here if I need it!

Where’s the cash cash cash emoji?

Jeez you don't even know. I actually had a tank sitting in my garage for over a year with similar dimensions, never even seen water (72" x 48" x 20"tall). The problem was, it was going to cost me light $8k just in lighting, and after I added up the expenses, it just wasn't worth it to me. The builder was limited on the aquarium height, and I did not LOVE the tank because it was so shallow.... To spend this kind of $$ on a tank you REALLY have to be in love with it.... I essentially ended up giving it away at ~ 15% of what I paid for it

Have I seen you at the store before? Visit often? You like to wear a cap? DISCLAIMER I don’t look at people on purpose tentatively

If you couldn’t tell I’m a big emoji guy

No, I've never actually been in the store before (I didn't even know it was in Orlando until you told me!). Yep I get it... I'm a fellow introvert, but fortunately/unfortunately my job has forced me to be a 'people person'....

Hope you can help me out here are these Cyano and on top of that Dinos? Wanna make sure. Ways to treat other than sterilizer or bacteria(l) products?

I would say with almost 100% certainty that is Cyano. It can kindof glob together like Dinos, but cyano will form a thin wide sheet across the sandbed (and rock also - it's hard to tell if it's there from the picture). Cyano is a tough one. When I run into it, I usually try to vacuum it - it comes off very easily.

I have been running barebottom on most of my systems the past decade or so, and for whatever reason cyano hasn't grown in these systems. If you aren't in love with the sandbed you could remove it, and that would likely solve most of the issue.

Another path would be to use Chemi Clean. This has worked for me in the past, and is also almost guaranteed to solve the problem permanently. If you are going to use it now is the time, with the tank being so new and having limited live stock (would probably not use this if I had corals and/or a heavy fish load). Your skimmer will go absolutely crazy, so prep for that if you decide to go that route.

Out of the 2 options above I would choose pulling the sand out (yes, I would do it all in one swoop... have done this many times before, including mature systems). The way I do this is to simply use a siphon to suck the sand up and have it dump into a large filter sock. This will catch the sand, along with debris in the sand bed, so you're not left with a ton of gunk from the sand bed left in the tank. Once the filter sock fills up with sand, empty the filter sock into a bucket or whatever. Repeat until all of the sand is removed. I actually did this it in the thread on my first page - everything did fine.

Either way removing the sand and/or using Chemi-Clean are both knee-jerk reactions. If you want to take the slow route, I would add the UV sterilizer for sure, do 15-20% water changes per week, add your bacterial supplements. Doing it this way will likely smooth out or prevent any other cycles from happening (if you kill cyano (or any other pest) quickly, usually you will see another organism take over where the cyano left off.... diatoms, hair algae, etc...

I hope this helps.

 

[Perry]

Just found this Nate, following along

 

[Petcrazyson]

This would be amazing!!! I won't hold you to it, but please let me know if you hear anything good!

Will do!

Did I mess these up? Maybe they aren't technically Bristle-tooth tangs.... But they have a similar body shape w/ mouth underneath the head, and exhibit similar feeding patterns... Straighten me out here if I need it!

Umm kinda yea The three you mentioned are all Acanthurus. This family has tangs like the ones you mentioned and very popular ones like Powder blues Powder browns, Achilles, Goldrim, and Atlantic blue, Orange Shoulder just name a few. The only one I would say looks close to a bristletooth would be the Mimic Eibli. But totally different personality. All Acanthurus with the exception of mimics and maybe a convict need rlly big tanks, 6‘ plus, with the more boisterous ones like the PBT families and the Achilles need 8’ plus in the end with rlly fast flow in certain areas. I wouldn’t keep any Acanthurus in 4’ tank not even for a little bit, with the exception of a Convict or a Mimic, but then again only for a small period of time.

Now Bristletooths are some of the best utilitarian tangs there are, and get to a size where they can live long term and happy in a 4’ tank or 5’ tank. Tangs in that family include the Tomini, White-Tail Kole, and Yellow Eye Kole. These have a much calmer do-minor then that of the rlly aggressive and fast/far swimming Acanthurus. Idk if you will get a Bristletooth in the end, but if you do my choice would be the White-Tail Kole, he’s on my fish list. And try to get a Tahiti one.

 

[Petcrazyson]

Jeez you don't even know. I actually had a tank sitting in my garage for over a year with similar dimensions, never even seen water (72" x 48" x 20"tall). The problem was, it was going to cost me light $8k just in lighting, and after I added up the expenses, it just wasn't worth it to me. The builder was limited on the aquarium height, and I did not LOVE the tank because it was so shallow.... To spend this kind of $$ on a tank you REALLY have to be in love with it.... I essentially ended up giving it away at ~ 15% of what I paid for it

Wish I could of been there cause I would have been interested lol. I’ve always loved the idea of a long and shallow coral display. Like they do in the shops.

No, I've never actually been in the store before (I didn't even know it was in Orlando until you told me!). Yep I get it... I'm a fellow introvert, but fortunately/unfortunately my job has forced me to be a 'people person'....

IK what you mean.

I would say with almost 100% certainty that is Cyano. It can kindof glob together like Dinos, but cyano will form a thin wide sheet across the sandbed (and rock also - it's hard to tell if it's there from the picture). Cyano is a tough one. When I run into it, I usually try to vacuum it - it comes off very easily.

Thank you for the answer. I have little patches of it on the rocks, only as of yet that is. I’ve tried vacuuming it, only to be greeted with that pinkish face in a few days time.

I have been running barebottom on most of my systems the past decade or so, and for whatever reason cyano hasn't grown in these systems. If you aren't in love with the sandbed you could remove it, and that would likely solve most of the issue.

I’ve liked the idea of a BB. I was actually going to do it when I first set it up, but my dad persuaded me into adding sand. And yea I think I’ll keep it now. It’s opened a bigger box of marine goodies I can have that I couldn’t in a BB. But let me tell ya one day I’ll have a BB, and it will be Acro dominated! Got a question. Even if I did remove the sand, wouldn’t that encourage the Cyano to grow on the rock? I‘ve got enough Dinos to deal on the rocks atm.

Another path would be to use Chemi Clean. This has worked for me in the past, and is also almost guaranteed to solve the problem permanently. If you are going to use it now is the time, with the tank being so new and having limited live stock (would probably not use this if I had corals and/or a heavy fish load). Your skimmer will go absolutely crazy, so prep for that if you decide to go that route.

Great idea! I‘ll put that on my shopping list then. I agree now it would be time as to not upset anything too much. If I do use it then I’ll turn of my skimmer for a day or two or three. Do you think supplementing the tank with about 4 bottles of different things be a bad idea, or should I do one by one with the strongest first?

if you kill cyano (or any other pest) quickly, usually you will see another organism take over where the cyano left off.... diatoms, hair algae, etc...

Yea I’m afraid of this And it’s happened before. In my previous setup, it went like this: Diatoms, to some string algae, to some Cyano, to some more Diatoms, to some more Cyano, to some more Diatoms.

 

[naterealbig]

Just found this Nate, following along

Hey Perry - thanks for following along - I hope you will chime in and share your expertise... Your tank is coming along nicely!!

 

[naterealbig]

I’ve liked the idea of a BB. I was actually going to do it when I first set it up, but my dad persuaded me into adding sand. And yea I think I’ll keep it now.

I totally get it, BB isn't for everyone, and while I love it myself (I like both the look (as long as the bottom is white), and the methodology....), it's simply not for everyone...

It’s opened a bigger box of marine goodies I can have that I couldn’t in a BB.

Agreed 100%

But let me tell ya one day I’ll have a BB, and it will be Acro dominated!

Can you used for non-acro aquariums as well... I'm doing a full-blown mixed reef...

Got a question. Even if I did remove the sand, wouldn’t that encourage the Cyano to grow on the rock? I‘ve got enough Dinos to deal on the rocks atm.

Probably not, and here's why....

a) Removing the sand from the tank will increase your flow, even without adding any pumps. The sand itself disrupts water flow because of its rough surface, natural hills, etc.

b) Ideally, you'd add another powerhead or two (they wouldn't need to be big), and this coupled with a) would keep food/detritus into the water column and get it to your filters sock/skimmer.... By-the-by, I'm curious what skimmer you are using... Don't tell me, I need to find a few minutes to visit your thread again.... But keep in mind I have found a slightly oversized skimmer to work best (in BB and non-BB tanks)... Right now you want to keep nutrient export as high as possible... You can dial it down (or add to feedings) later as you add livestock.

Great idea! I‘ll put that on my shopping list then. I agree now it would be time as to not upset anything too much. If I do use it then I’ll turn of my skimmer for a day or two or three.

Keep the skimmer on - oxygenation is important here, as I believe the Chemi-Clean uses some time of bacteria that will deplete it... Just run the skimmer without the skimmer cup. It will make a mess in the sump, but it only temporary...

Do you think supplementing the tank with about 4 bottles of different things be a bad idea, or should I do one by one with the strongest first?

I'll need to check again everything you're dosing, but in general, the bacterial supplements will only help (doubtful of any negative reactions between bacterial products, chemi-clean. However I agree with you, generally a 'bad' idea to dose many things at the same time. I would pause the bacterial supplements the day you add the chemi-clean, and resume 3 or 4 days after. If for no other reason, the chemi-clean coupled w/ the bacteria will deplete oxygen even quicker - and stopping the bacterial supplementation will minimize this risk.

If you haven't considered it already, I think MicroBacter Start might be a good addition to your bacterial repertoire....

Yea I’m afraid of this And it’s happened before. In my previous setup, it went like this: Diatoms, to some string algae, to some Cyano, to some more Diatoms, to some more Cyano, to some more Diatoms.

Is a realistic mechanism.... My comment on this is that hair/string algae and diatoms are the lesser of the evils.

Addition of some live amphipod and copepod cultures would likely help here (perhaps after the chemi-clean treatment). I don't think they will munch on the cyano, but certainly will help with algae, diatoms, even dinos...

 

[naterealbig]

So on the cycling front....

a) from 30-Oct to 31-Oct ammonia increased by ~ 0.2 ppm

b) 31-October - dosed full bottle of Dr. Tims, and recommended starting dose of Brightwell MicroBacter Clean

c) 1-Nov - measured ammonia, and only saw a 0.05 increase in ammonia. Good so far - went from 0.2 increase over 24 hours in ammonia, to only a 0.05 increase... Looks like the Dr. Tims bacteria are helping very much.



d) 1-Nov Dosed 1/2 bottle of MicroBacter Start (~ 6x recommended dose), and started a 2x daily dose of MicroBacter Clean. Will measure ammonia today to see the results.



Will also check nitrates later today - I imagine these will spike with the large bio load caused by decaying matter on the dry rocks (still mad at myself for not cleaning these prior to placing in the curing bin - such an amateur move). I also postulate that with bacteria rapidly processing waste, alkalinity will have dropped as well.

I have everything I need to start TropicMarin All For Reef, so need to get this set up by the end of the week.

I'll also stop by one of the LFS to grab some water change water - I still don't have my station set up. Before I do this, I either need to get rid of, or find a method to hang my Kayak. It's currently taking up too much space in my 'corner' of the garage. From there I'll build my workbench (I have the top, but need to add legs, and trim the top down to size so that my water tanks will fit where I need them to). More to come on this....

 

[Petcrazyson]

Can you used for non-acro aquariums as well... I'm doing a full-blown mixed reef...

It can…but I like the idea of an acro dominant bb rather than a mixed reef kind. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn‘t enjoy keeping one of those in a bb. Maybe a separate bb tank one day then besides the acro one

By-the-by, I'm curious what skimmer you are using... Don't tell me, I need to find a few minutes to visit your thread again....

If you haven't considered it already, I think MicroBacter Start might be a good addition to your bacterial repertoire....

The ones I have jotted down are: Microbacter Clean, Dr Tim’s One and Only, Seachem Clarity, Brightwell‘s Reef Bio-fuel, RedSea’s Algae Management, and now your Microbacter Start XLM, which I’m sure will come in handy with other things.

 

[naterealbig]

Added the daily double dose of MicroBacter Start along with the double dose of MicroBacter Clean. Things headed in the right direction, with ammonia finally starting to decrease with no intervention from me....



Stopped by TSA for a bucket of saltwater and some carbon. Lots of beautiful fish, but no Black Tang ...

No time to check nitrates or alkalinity today - will try to get it knocked out tomorrow.

 

[Petcrazyson]

I can see the Microbacter brothers helped immediately. With time I think they will make that cycle be yesterday’s problem. I’ll still keep an eye out on that Black Tang, and message you here if I see one.

 

[Petcrazyson]

Afternoon Nate. I did some digging and found that amongthereef has Black Tangs. I’m not sure if they are from Hawaii or not, but I hope this is bit of a help. I think you may need to contact them via their website to find out the origin.

 

[Petcrazyson]

Yea so the Black Tangs go for $1000 to $2000. Still not sure if they are Hawaiian though.

 

[Petcrazyson]

NATE NATE NATE NATE TSA has 2 Hawaiian Black Tangs $2500 each! They told me it was Hawaiian but best double check. I found 2 for you!

 

[naterealbig]

Sorry it's been forever since i posted... Work has gotten the best of me the last few weeks. Between this, holidays, soccer and football games for the kiddo, there just hasn't been time to do much.

Added a skimmer (Tunze Comline are a favorite of mine).




Grabbed a handful of rubble from my brothers tank....




Broke out the videoscope.... It's amazing what you see...












Checked Alkalinity and ammonia. All good here. I need to hook up my Versas and start dosing the A4R. I'd like to keep Alk ~ 12.






A week or two after I've got the dosing up, I'll start dosing carbon (vodka), and start playing around nitrate and phosphate additions (vodka, nitrate, phosphate, A4R in a single mixing container.

 

[Petcrazyson]

Happy yiur back! Nate I tried the Seachem Clarity and it doesn’t seem to work its been 3 days. Any ideas? Also did yiu see the messages for the Black Tangs?

 

[naterealbig]

Happy yiur back! Nate I tried the Seachem Clarity and it doesn’t seem to work its been 3 days. Any ideas? Also did yiu see the messages for the Black Tangs?

Hi - yesss!!! I got your messages and I'm sorry for not writing back to let you know. I saw the tangs in TSA because you told me about them - what beautiful fish. For some reason I felt like I should wait. So no Tang yet

 

[Petcrazyson]

Hi - yesss!!! I got your messages and I'm sorry for not writing back to let you know. I saw the tangs in TSA because you told me about them - what beautiful fish. For some reason I felt like I should wait. So no Tang yet

Well I’m glad you have the self restraint I don’t lol. The only thing that ever puts me off is price and stock list room. And even then I’m like “cmon I’ve got room for just one more right? What was is that told you to hold off on them?

 

[naterealbig]

Well I’m glad you have the self restraint I don’t lol. The only thing that ever puts me off is price and stock list room. And even then I’m like “cmon I’ve got room for just one more right? What was is that told you to hold off on them?

Well you "hit the nail on the head" more or less... Spending that much $$ on a fish - to me it has to be the perfect specimen... Also, lot's of birthdays in October and November (son, fiance, younger brother, sister) it causes additional pause. Trust me, it was tough!