Unable to get rid of algae

[asome_one]

I have been dealing with algae in my salt water tank pretty much since I set it up. Used cycled rock from an inferior tank and got it, rookie mistake I know. So the tank has been up and running for 1 year and 7 months. I always hoped that the algae would solve itself over that time as I just try to keep things stable. it is a total system volume of about 20 gallons give or take. 15 gal main tank with a 5 gal sump. I run an oversized skimmer that was running in a 150 gal. I use purigen and carbon in reactors. Mechanical filtration is a 25 micron sock. Got a lot of rock in the sump. Ive been using instant ocean but just purchased reef crystals which I'll be transitioning to. Not new to fish keeping but this is my first and only salty tank.
I try to change about 10 gallons every week (basically when I need to clean the algae from the glass I do a water change). Sometimes it ends up being 2 weeks but never longer than that. Premix the salt in a container, heated, and circulated. Use only rodi water tested for ppm.
During water changes I will scrub the rock with a toothbrush and get everything I can out of the tank. It begins to pop back up about 2 days after the water change with it completely obscuring the front glass within 2 weeks. The photos were taken right before a water change, about 1.5 weeks had passed since the last. I scraped the front glass so it was possible to see in.
Anyway,
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrates 25-50, depends when I test in the water change period. Phosphate 0 calcium 400 gh 400 kh 180 I use salifert kits all within the expiration date.

I definitely have some bubble algae in there and green algae.
Only inhabs are an emerald crab, 2 clowns, and a 6 line wrasse. Various corals. I have an auto feeder for pellets but it only feeds about 6-10 pellets per day. The fish eat them almost immediately. I give a small piece of frozen food about once a week.

I have tried chemi clean in the past to no effect. blackout works but only for a short while. I don't have a very big bio load and I oversized my skimmer to help with nitrates but they always stay above 15 and normally about 25. I tried to grow chaeto but it slowly shrunk away. I figured it was due to my light so I used an asta 20 on the white channel and it still withered away.
Its frustrating as this is my favorite tank out of all of em. I dont understand why the nitrates go up as high as they do with such small fish and limited feeding.
Thanks yall

 

[moreef]

What test kit you using for phosphate? Your tank is small enough you could almost do 100% wc. Do you run a UV sterilizer? If not you may want to consider it they really help a lot with algae problems. Also ATS are great to use if able.

 

[asome_one]

What test kit you using for phosphate? Your tank is small enough you could almost do 100% wc. Do you run a UV sterilizer? If not you may want to consider it they really help a lot with algae problems. Also ATS are great to use if able.

Do you mean an ATO? I have one. I use an API and double check with a seachem. I've been seriously considering a uv but it seems like a bandaid for a larger issue.

 

[brandon429]

Easy fix


run this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/algae-identification.707457/

in two hours you’re fixed. The before pics are exactly like yours and the after pics are the ideal outcome of a dedicated cleaning run. All the steps and ordering for safety are covered there.

 

[CanuckReefer]

I would invest in livestock that will assist you....An urchin or 2, (pincushion, or short spine black), fighting or strawberry conch , astrea / trochus snails, small blue or red leg hermits. Looking at the stock list you have nothing other than an emerald to control the issue. Add them slowly, not all in same day, and I bet you notice a world of difference.....also looks like you have a good amount of coraline developed so wouldn't worry too much about the Urchins stripping it....it will come back fairly quickly

 

[moreef]

Algae turf scrubber but also noticed you had tried to grow chaeto. Maybe try a grow light with red spectrum otherwise ats or algae reactors are good. Im gonna guess your phosphates are high and nitrates may even be higher. Bubble algae can be difficult to get rid of but best way I found is vacuum it out with rigid airline tubing.

 

[Hermie]

I kind of have the same situation as you. Similar tank system volume (28 gallons) and age (2 years).

Basically it boils down to this,

You probably have higher phosphates than 0, it's just the test kit can't detect them. Second, unmeasurable phosphates get bound up in the rock and substrate. To address this, you can either ignore your phosphate levels or you can get an ultra low resolution checker like the Hannah checker.

Second, you either need to manually remove the algae as you are currently doing or get a ton more herbivores (snails/urchins/possibly mollies).

The only way the algae is going to go away and stop coming back is if you can get your phosphate levels low enough to starve the algae's growth while at the same time manually removing (herbivores or by hand).

To get your phosphates low you can go a variety of routes. Personally I use aluminum oxide (Phosguard) and will start dosing Lanthanum Chloride once I get a hannah checker to monitor my phosphate levels. Another person suggested an algae turf scrubber, which is another excellent option.

Also, cutting back on your feedings will help. But ultimately, you need to find out what your phosphate levels truly are. I have the same Salifert checker and I don't believe it's capable of measuring phosphates at the precision we need.

 

[zalick]

2 weeks before the glass needs cleaning is fairly common/normal.

Your algae doesn't look bad at all IMO.

As @CanuckReefer mentioned above, you need something to eat the algae.

I intentionally grew a ton of algae on some rocks because I was ordering lots of snails and needed food for them in quarantine. WAY more algae than you show. I put the rocks in a 20 gallon with all the snails and within 2 weeks there was zero algae. It's been a month now and not a sign of algae. I have 40 snails in there: trochus and turbo.

I'd recommend you get around 10 or so trochus snails and your algae will be gone in no time. I prefer trochus as they can right themselves of the fall. They also reproduce in the aquarium and seem to live longer than turbos IME.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What i do see is Dinoflagellates. Your skimmer may be contributing to this by stealing nutrients. Nevertheless, get ahead of it and beat it before it progresses.
First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[asome_one]

Easy fix


run this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/algae-identification.707457/

in two hours you’re fixed. The before pics are exactly like yours and the after pics are the ideal outcome of a dedicated cleaning run. All the steps and ordering for safety are covered there.

Edit: you guys posted so many helpful things Im gonna have to respond in multiple posts. Im sorry if this causes confusion I will try to respond as directly as possible.


Im gonna run through what I have gathered from the process and let me know if im missing something.
Completely clean the tank as best as possible. Drain the tank and remove all inhabs into a bucket or whatever. Spray/spot treat/soak any and all rocks as well as the tank using a 1:10 3% hydrogen peroxide/water mix. Replace water inahbs. success. Is this a correct basic summary?

couple of questions.
The sand is a nonissue as I originally started with a 2 inch deep sand bed and have been siphoning out some on each water change to achieve the eventual goal of a sandless aquarium. I'll install eggcrate if i take these large scale cleaning steps.
I have a lot of coral on my rocks I think I can work around most of them but the GSP on my back wall poses the biggest problem in my opinion. It took me about 1.5 years to grow it to where it is now. How could I effectively treat this area without simply scraping it all off. The gsp on the rocks...that's okay I don't want it on the rocks anyway. Would the 1:10 3% mixture kill the algae but not the gsp if sprayed? If I treat the rocks with gsp I would prefer to use ur suggested method of 35% to kill the gsp I cant pick off.
Furthermore, some affected rocks have xenia encrusting a good portion of them. I see that you say that it will not affect zoas. I should expect all of my attached zoas to survive a dip into this mixture? 1:10 3%?
Should I treat my sump rocks which don't have visible algae on them. Should I also drain my sump and treat all equipment, lines, and skimmer with the same solution?
Should i discard any drained water or can that be placed back in the aquarium after the process is completed.

How do I clean the sprayed peroxide mix off? RO dip or salt dip? Do I have to fill the tank and run with mixed water and then drain again to clear it from my system?
What if the algae returns after doing all that work.

 

[asome_one]

2 weeks before the glass needs cleaning is fairly common/normal.

Your algae doesn't look bad at all IMO.

As @CanuckReefer mentioned above, you need something to eat the algae.

I intentionally grew a ton of algae on some rocks because I was ordering lots of snails and needed food for them in quarantine. WAY more algae than you show. I put the rocks in a 20 gallon with all the snails and within 2 weeks there was zero algae. It's been a month now and not a sign of algae. I have 40 snails in there: trochus and turbo.

I'd recommend you get around 10 or so trochus snails and your algae will be gone in no time. I prefer trochus as they can right themselves of the fall. They also reproduce in the aquarium and seem to live longer than turbos IME.

So since its a smaller system Ive been trying to be very light with my stocking as I plan for the clowns and wrasse to eventually grow to a less comfortable size for the tank they are in. I originally got the emerald crabs to help with the bubble algae but have had trouble keeping more than one alive in the tank. They also pick at my zoas which I very much dislike. A lot of the fish that are known to eat bubble algae are far too large for my system. Especially long term. Back before it was like this I did have a bunch of turbo snails and still have a couple (i think) cerithiidae. Eventually I gave the turbos away as the egg trails they left annoyed the heck out of me.
I can take a water sample to my reef shop and see what they say but I have a feeling they wont find too much more. How could a phosphate of even 1 be effecting the tank this much. I could understand 10 or 20 but not such a lower number.

 

[CanuckReefer]

So since its a smaller system Ive been trying to be very light with my stocking as I plan for the clowns and wrasse to eventually grow to a less comfortable size for the tank they are in. I originally got the emerald crabs to help with the bubble algae but have had trouble keeping more than one alive in the tank. They also pick at my zoas which I very much dislike. A lot of the fish that are known to eat bubble algae are far too large for my system. Especially long term. Back before it was like this I did have a bunch of turbo snails and still have a couple (i think) cerithiidae. Eventually I gave them away as the egg trails they left annoyed the heck out of me.
I can take a water sample to my reef shop and see what they say but I have a feeling they wont find too much more. How could a phosphate of even 1 be effecting the tank this much. I could understand 10 or 20 but not such a lower number.

My end of things is I don't like all the constant dosing. You don't need a lot of it. You need a solid clean up crew, and the tank is old enough to be able to support it. If the crew wipes out your algae and you have to rehome or sell back to LFS thats OK. Let's get some algae and detritus eaters into your system. As @zalick said Trochus would be a very valuable addition...

 

[asome_one]

What i do see is Dinoflagellates. Your skimmer may be contributing to this by stealing nutrients. Nevertheless, get ahead of it and beat it before it progresses.
First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

I have already done blackouts. I have done a 3 day and a 5 day. The tank has returned to this state both times.
Also. the tank lights are much bluer than is depicted. I altered the color balance in the attached photos to enable a better view of the tank.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have already done blackouts. I have done a 3 day and a 5 day. The tank has returned to this state both times.
Also. the tank lights are much bluer than is depicted. I altered the color balance in the attached photos to enable a better view of the tank.

If you are not adding bacteria during the day and peroxide at night and cleaning filters daily, blackout alone will do nothing.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I would suggest to cut back on feeding. Or try frozen more than flakes or pellets. Reduce lighting hours per day. I don’t use filter socks or filters of any kind I believe they contribute to your high nitrates. Your doing good water changes per week but somehow your still adding more nutrients than you are removing. You need to figure out your nutrient issue.

 

[asome_one]

Based on all the suggestions I am likely going to attempt the blackout with dosing after a cleaning. After this I will add another clean up crew to manage anything further.

What i do see is Dinoflagellates. Your skimmer may be contributing to this by stealing nutrients. Nevertheless, get ahead of it and beat it before it progresses.
First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

What is the hydrogen peroxide concentration I should be using for that 1ml per 10 gal.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Based on all the suggestions I am likely going to attempt the blackout with dosing after a cleaning. After this I will add another clean up crew to manage anything further.

What is the hydrogen peroxide concentration I should be using for that 1ml per 10 gal.

3%

 

[asome_one]

I figured I would get one eventually and since I had some extra money laying around just picked up a 9watt 80gph UV from Sun. I don't expect it to do much but I would like to the see if it has much of any impact before I do the dosing methods. If nothing else it'll be nice to have around for future use on a QT or if i have a parasite outbreak.

 

[CanuckReefer]

I figured I would get one eventually and since I had some extra money laying around just picked up a 9watt 80gph UV from Sun. I don't expect it to do much but I would like to the see if it has much of any impact before I do the dosing methods. If nothing else it'll be nice to have around for future use on a QT or if i have a parasite outbreak.

I've got a simple 9w on my system. I run it under my lighting schedule. And also unplug it every other week. You don't want it stripping too much imo. Does its job in minimal doses here

 

[asome_one]

I've got a simple 9w on my system. I run it under my lighting schedule. And also unplug it every other week. You don't want it stripping too much imo. Does its job in minimal doses here

At the moment I'm planning to just let it run 24/7 to see if it has a noticeable effect. If it does I'll put it on a schedule. If not I'll probably pull it after I do the dosing. Electric bill is already high enough haha