Unconventional Reef Keepers: Are you one of them?

Would you consider yourself to be an unconventional reefer?

  • Yes in many ways (tell us in the thread)

    Votes: 86 19.9%
  • In some ways (tell us in the thread)

    Votes: 203 47.0%
  • Not at all

    Votes: 133 30.8%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 10 2.3%

  • Total voters
    432

beaslbob

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You had me nodding "fine" until tap water. But then I am guessing your tap water is different than many of us. No fluoride. No chlorine. No chloramines.
chlorine dissipates extremely rapidly. chloramines slower. fluoride also. some even dissipate while in the water distribution system. using live macro algae and not doing water changes prevents any harm.
 

ScottB

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chlorine dissipates extremely rapidly. chloramines slower. fluoride also. some even dissipate while in the water distribution system. using live macro algae and not doing water changes prevents any harm.
I guess if I did enough ICPs on my well water... oh never mind. I push thousands of gallons of water through my systems each year. I will always RODI.

No way would I trust municipal water without RODI. The range of problems that many are trying to solve are vast, seasonal, and changing all the time. My LFS (on municipal) changes out at 2ppm. Sometimes he can go a couple months, sometimes a couple weeks. Sometimes the sediment filter is red; sometimes it is brown; it is all over the place.
 

Falreef

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Run a HOB Aquaclear and allow it to become its own algae turf scrubber
 

-XENOMORPH-

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I'm unconventional in many ways. Started in 2013 with a 40g breeder and then a 57g rimless and now a 32g biocube

I have never acclimated anything and havnt had issues.

I dont test any parameters but do water changes every few weeks. More often if things look unhappy

I dont mind some hair algae and the fish love it

I have a 4 inch hippp tang in a 32g biocube and she is loving life

I have 3 clowns in the same tank and they get along. I had a pair and the female died after 4 yrs so i took my brothers pair because he was getting out of the hobby

Currently i have over 20 corals and 6 fish with 2 shrimp and several turbo snails and a conch in the biocube

I have an upgraded return pump/innovative marine protein skinner and just started chaeto
 

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Bouncingsoul39

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i’m unconventional by today’s standards in that I use real ocean live rock and treasure every little hitchhiker as much as i do my fish and coral. I want the largest amount of biodiversity I can get.

I’ve bought asterinas and bristle worms.

all of my corals except for one are grown by local reefers.

I feed my fish at least 2-3 times daily with a wide variety of foods. Seeing how thick and healthy looking reef fish are in the wild changed my mind completely about my feeding routine. I want them to look natural.

I don’t run any mechanical filtration except for once a month or so when i turkey bastet all the detritus off the rocks and then only for one day.

I feed my clam and corals every other day.

I run my LED lighting on the white side. Like 14k. Can’t stand super blue tanks.

I’ve got a massive variety of CuC including several snail species, several hermit types, sand conchs, urchins
 
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Subsea

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i’m unconventional by today’s standards in that I use real ocean live rock and treasure every little hitchhiker as much as i do my fish and coral. I want the largest amount of biodiversity I can get.

I’ve bought asterinas and bristle worms.

all of my corals except for one are grown by local reefers.

I feed my fish at least 2-3 times daily with a wide variety of foods. Seeing how thick and healthy looking reef fish are in the wild changed my mind completely about my feeding routine. I want them to look natural.

I don’t run any mechanical filtration except for once a month or so when i turkey bastet all the detritus off the rocks and then only for one day.

I feed my clam and corals every other day.

I run my LED lighting on the white side. Like 14k. Can’t stand super blue tanks.

I’ve got a massive variety of CuC including several snail species, several hermit types, sand conchs, urchins

yes to diver collected live rock. I get Gulf Live Rock from 30’ of water 30 miles west of Tampa Bay.

I have been Reefing for 50 years and I have been using a modified Triton Method for 40 years. I don’t change water but twice a year. Makeup water comes from Trinity Aquifier at 1000’. This was an ancient inland sea with diatoms & limestone contributing minerals with a TDS of 999 ppm.

My oldest tank at 25 years is 75G display with 30G EcoSystem Mud/Macro refugium which was converted to cryptic refugium 6 months ago. With this change, nutrient management is all about nutrient recycling to produce desirable biomass using bacteria, algae and cryptic sponges (Thank you @Timfish).

My 120G is 4yrs setup with a 40G cryptic refugium.

I think that my two newest tanks at 4 months setup are the most unique. Initially, I wanted an ornamental seaweed lagoon as a mixed garden display with heavy emphasis on filter feeders. So I opted to bring in 100 lbs of uncured live rock and 50lbs of live sand. Once cured and curated, I intended to add desirables in all systems. I set up 30G high tank on my coffee table with 1” of “reef grade” aroggonite with a cannister filter with 250 GPH flow rate and MaxiJet 1200 power head for robust circulation to spin a large ball of Halymenia Durvillei.


The 75G is to be my ornamental macro mixed garden lagoon. I choose to design in a plenum that was a reverse flow undergravel filter using dry aroggonite. A MaxiJet 1200 pushes 300 GPH up true 1.5“ of aroggonite. A 300 GPH cannister filer using corse sponge a dry reef rubble.

Both tanks were seeded with MicroBacter7 and feed ammonia to develop nitrification bacteria densities. Once nitrification bacteria was established,100 lbs of diver collected rock was put in both tanks. I also had a 150G Rubbermade tub on standby. The 50 lbs of live sand was added to all four systems.


First picture is 75G tank with two 2’ by 4’ Windows bringing in sunlight from east & west. Because of this heat gain, I am using a pancake fan over HOB filter water surface to maintain temperature < 78 degrees. Sunlight is bright during Texas summer afternoon and may wash out picture. Most of ornamental red seaweed grew from spores on live rock. The green feather caulerpa Paspoidies came in with live sand.

The second picture is of temporary 30G tank. I liked it soooo much, I bought a stand and moved it yesterday.

Third picture is 75G display with algae film on glass. I normally like that clean, which is on my “to do” list.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

flyfisher2

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I remember the days of bleached coral being salt water aquarium decor. I even remember when it was a 'no no' to introduce the gooey slimy stuff that grows on rocks to your tanks because it would pollute the tank and kill your fish.
We've come a long way and that's been by trial and error. Let's move forward and not repeatedly make the mistakes of the past and in so doing limit our learning and progress. Experimentation is good if you know what you're trying to achieve.
 

Subsea

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The carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus cycles are more complex than I'm presenting here but this should help show some of the complexity we are dealing with.

Carbon is divided into Particulate Organic Carbon (POC), Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC), and Dissolved Inorganic Carbon, (DIC).
- DOC is a very complex subject. It is sometimes seen subdivided into Labile, Semi-Labile and refractory DOC
Particulate Organic Carbon is particles over a certain size (roughly .5 microns, I didn't go down this rabbit hole very far).
--Labile DOC is easily consumed by microbial processes. For reef systems the labile DOC released by macro
algae promote heterotrophic (I think of it as oxygen consuming) microbial processes and is found to promote pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes while labile DOC released by coraline algae and corals promotes autotrophic (I think of it as oxygen enriching) microbial processes.
--Semi-Refractory DOC is a small fraction of the total, accessable to some microorganisms.
--Refractory DOC is generally unavailable for microbial processes. Research has shown though, the labile DOC from macro algae can be used by heterotrophic microbial processes to completely remove all DOC.

-DIC is for us reefers is "simpler". It's Carbon Dioxide (CO2), Bicarbonate (HCO3) and Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)

Nitrogen is found as free nitrogen (N2), Particulate Organic Nitrogen (PON), Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (DON) and Dissolved Inorganic Carbon (DIN).
-N2 is used by diazotrophs in the coral microbiome to make nitrates that may be used bu the corals
-PON is particles above a certain size. Feeding corals particulate stuff has species specific responses.
-DON includes amino acids and urea and is an important source for nitrogen for corals and is preferred to nitrates -DIN includes ammonia/ammonium, nitrites and nitrates. Corals prefer ammonia over nitrates. (I think it's
important to note we are only testing for DIN.)

Phosphorus include Particulate Organic Phosphorus (POP), Dissolved Organic Phosphorus and Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (PIP).
-POP is particulates over a certain size.
-DOP includes phospholipids and is an important source of phosphorus for corals.
-DIP or orthophosphate or PO4 is an important source of phosphorus for corals (This is also the only form of phosphorus we are testing for).

Here's some of the refferences I've collected if you want to dig into it more. Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas is an excellent introduction to the roles of DOC in moderating the microbial processes on reefs.

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


Richard Ross "What's up with phosphate"



DOC stuff

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality
Coral seperated from algae with a .02 µm filter die. Treatment with aampicillan prevents death.

Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism.
Coral DOC improves oxygen (autotrophy), algae DOC reduces oxygen (heterotrophy).

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.

Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
Starch and sugars (doc) caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.

Visualization of oxygen distribution patterns caused by coral and algae

Biological oxygen demand optode analysis of coral reef-associated microbial communities exposed to algal exudates
Exposure to exudates derived from turf algae stimulated higher oxygen drawdown by the coral-associated bacteria.

Microbial ecology: Algae feed a shift on coral reefs

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages.

Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching

Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton

Unseen players shape benthic competition on coral reefs.

Allelochemicals Produced by Brown Macroalgae of the Lobophora Genus Are Active against Coral Larvae and Associated Bacteria, Supporting Pathogenic Shifts to Vibrio Dominance.

Macroalgae decrease growth and alter microbial community structure of the reef-building coral, Porites astreoides.

Macroalgal extracts induce bacterial assemblage shifts and sublethal tissue stress in Caribbean corals.

Biophysical and physiological processes causing oxygen loss from coral reefs.

Global microbialization of coral reefs
DDAM Proven

Coral Reef Microorganisms in a Changing Climate, Fig 3

Ecosystem Microbiology of Coral Reefs: Linking Genomic, Metabolomic, and Biogeochemical Dynamics from Animal Symbioses to Reefscape Processes


Because sponges are essential players in the carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus cycle(s) on reefs here's some links to research done with them.

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
(Chris Kenndall had a problem with low PO4 and had problems raising it with Neophos. Samples sent off showed phosphorus crystals developing in some of the sponges in his system accounting for at least some of his systems consumption.)

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.

And since we're discussing favorable and not so favorable bacteria here's a paper looking at how different corals and polyps are influencing the bacteria in the water column.

Aura-biomes are present in the water layer above coral reef benthic macro-organisms


Nitrogen Stuff

Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals

Amino acids a source of nitrogen for corals

Urea a source of nitrogen for corals

Diazotrpophs a source of nitrogen for corals

Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism


Phosphorus Stuff

An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral farming: effects of light, water motion and artificial foods

Comparing the capacity of five different dietary treatments to optimise growth and nutritional composition in two scleractinian corals

Elucidating an optimal diet for captive Acropora corals - ScienceDirect


Here's fig 4 from "Phosphorus Metabolism of Reef Organisms with ALgal Simbionts"
DIP DOP POP.jpg

Here's Fig. 3 from "Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism" Context‐dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral–algal mutualism(1).png


@Timfish

Do these studies on coral mortality due to algae DOC include soft coral?

PS: Not much better pictures of ornamental seaweed lagoon. I think I need photography lessons.

image.jpg image.jpg
 
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Screwgunner

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I do not do water changes . I use all seachem products ,trace,magnesium, reef builder, iodine, calcium, amino acids. Large ATS water fall. Protein skimmer reactor for carbon and phosgaurd if needed . I feed heavy just to keep my phosphates and nitrates up. Change carbon as soon as I smell the water is different. I does manually every day to keep alkalinity in check . Calcium once a month . Peramiters are close to seawater. Top off with rodi everyday right around a gallon of water everyday. 3 cubes frozen pinch of flack half sheet nory every otherday.
 

N.Sreefer

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I use periwinkles from the atlantic ocean rather than paying for snails. I also have red clawed crabs living in my sump (sold for fw for some reason they need brackish to sw). Also added some mummichogs the males have nice blue highlights when breeding.
 

Screwgunner

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I do not do water changes . I use all seachem products ,trace,magnesium, reef builder, iodine, calcium, amino acids. Large ATS water fall. Protein skimmer reactor for carbon and phosgaurd if needed . I feed heavy just to keep my phosphates and nitrates up. Change carbon as soon as I smell the water is different. I does manually every day to keep alkalinity in check . Calcium once a month . Peramiters are close to seawater. Top off with rodi everyday right around a gallon of water everyday. 3 cubes frozen pinch of flack half sheet nory every otherday.
I Also keep snails in my sump they clean my ATS screens its a win win .
 

Timfish

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@Timfish

Do these studies on coral mortality due to algae DOC include soft coral? . . .

Pat, depends on the research paper in question. Some of the research is looking at ecosystem wide effects some at species level. We know immune systems will vary at the species/genotype level, is also affected by the amount of photosynthates available (or not) from the zooxanthellae so individual colony response should be expected.
 

Tamberav

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I don't test anything except Alk once a week.

I rarely do water changes but also don't dose trace elements. I just feed the fish well which probably adds some trace.

I use live rock and don't mind hitchikers.

I paid money for majanos cuz they pretty.

I think we give noobs the wrong impression that they need to do this and this and this and don't do this and test this and this and this and you need this or it's all going to explode and any hitchiker is going to kill your tank.
 

ksed

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To reduce normal Chloramines concentrations to zero - you can use a tablespoon of ascorbic acid/400 L in you mixing container

Sincerely Lasse
I didn’t know it was effective with Chloramines? I thought it was for Chlorine only.
Lasse do you use RO water for your tank?
 

Neon Wookie

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I mix clownfish. I’ve got a cinnamon, a platinum, 2 ocellaris, and a midnight.

I actually generally like softies / leathers / etc more than hard corals because of the movement.

I have quite a few non reef safe fish in my reef tank. I have a large paddlefin, a green bird wrasse, a pink face wrasse, a blue head wrasse, and a niger trigger. They basically are just aggressive eaters when I feed them.

my blue hippo is fat
 

Lasse

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I didn’t know it was effective with Chloramines? I thought it was for Chlorine only.
Lasse do you use RO water for your tank?
I do that today of two different reasons. I start with tap water the first year - however I did rather regular WC at that time. After that I decide not to do regular WC - only top off. After that - I use RO for my top off. The second reason was that they did some repair work on the pipe system in my house. The Cu concentration rise after that.

The original paper I saw on ascorbic acid and active chlorine was about taking away chloramines from water used for dialysis in humans

Sincerely Lasse
 

Paul B

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My temperature gauge I took from the Plaza Hotel when I renovated the place. It is from 1907. :cool:

 

Daniel@R2R

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