Unconventional Reef Keepers: Are you one of them?

Would you consider yourself to be an unconventional reefer?

  • Yes in many ways (tell us in the thread)

    Votes: 86 19.9%
  • In some ways (tell us in the thread)

    Votes: 203 47.0%
  • Not at all

    Votes: 133 30.8%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 10 2.3%

  • Total voters
    432

Powertool-2010

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No skimmer, no filter socks, refugium only, populated with gha caulerpa and some other unknown algae. Chaeto doesn't seem to grow as prolifically. Also DIYed most of everything... Lights, hood, sump, auto top off system, soon to come auto water change system. Also I have no problem doing things slow... Actually it was probably more of a problem going slow. Was having problems keeping enough nutrients because I hadn't gotten fish into my system until well after I set it up and put corals in it... Oh well lessons learned on that point.
 

Jposch

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Crushed oyster shells substrate, metal halides, 100% soft coral, only an annual water change (which is not too uncommon) no socks, floss, etc. No skimmer! I run the halides 15hrs. A day. Temp steady at 83.5F° ozone injected 24/7 @50mg/hr. Was running 100mg/hr. But ozoninator died, and spare us only 50mg. Ozone runs into a homemade pressurized pvc reactor full of CPR biobale crap. Going to replace the sand though. I don't like that the oyster shells get encrusted with coralline. The dark substrate reduces reflected light and the coral grows slower.
 

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IndianReefGuy

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Corals are the most important component of filtration for removing DIN and DIP. SPonges are the most important component of filtration for removing labile hydrophilic and hydrophobic DOC. Equipment only needed for water movement and light.
Clarify please ... DIN /DIP/ DOC ... disolved nitrates, phosphates, organics?? If that is the common vernacular , then I don’t disagree as I’ve seen those being needed in my own tanks for their life cycle / reproduction etc...
 

IndianReefGuy

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No skimmer, no filter socks, refugium only, populated with gha caulerpa and some other unknown algae. Chaeto doesn't seem to grow as prolifically. Also DIYed most of everything... Lights, hood, sump, auto top off system, soon to come auto water change system. Also I have no problem doing things slow... Actually it was probably more of a problem going slow. Was having problems keeping enough nutrients because I hadn't gotten fish into my system until well after I set it up and put corals in it... Oh well lessons learned on that point.
I too run no skimmer, just a small refugium in the sump, but chaeto and Calerpa does great , nitrates stay between 2-5 (Salifert) po4 usually .09-.2 (Hanna) ... but when those nutrients are high and ca/alk are 400+/ 9.8+ I see the most polyp extension ... and assume the most potential for growth.
 

Timfish

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Clarify please ... DIN /DIP/ DOC ... disolved nitrates, phosphates, organics?? If that is the common vernacular , then I don’t disagree as I’ve seen those being needed in my own tanks for their life cycle / reproduction etc...
The carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus cycles are more complex than I'm presenting here but this should help show some of the complexity we are dealing with.

Carbon is divided into Particulate Organic Carbon (POC), Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC), and Dissolved Inorganic Carbon, (DIC).
- DOC is a very complex subject. It is sometimes seen subdivided into Labile, Semi-Labile and refractory DOC
Particulate Organic Carbon is particles over a certain size (roughly .5 microns, I didn't go down this rabbit hole very far).
--Labile DOC is easily consumed by microbial processes. For reef systems the labile DOC released by macro
algae promote heterotrophic (I think of it as oxygen consuming) microbial processes and is found to promote pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes while labile DOC released by coraline algae and corals promotes autotrophic (I think of it as oxygen enriching) microbial processes.
--Semi-Refractory DOC is a small fraction of the total, accessable to some microorganisms.
--Refractory DOC is generally unavailable for microbial processes. Research has shown though, the labile DOC from macro algae can be used by heterotrophic microbial processes to completely remove all DOC.

-DIC is for us reefers is "simpler". It's Carbon Dioxide (CO2), Bicarbonate (HCO3) and Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)

Nitrogen is found as free nitrogen (N2), Particulate Organic Nitrogen (PON), Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (DON) and Dissolved Inorganic Carbon (DIN).
-N2 is used by diazotrophs in the coral microbiome to make nitrates that may be used bu the corals
-PON is particles above a certain size. Feeding corals particulate stuff has species specific responses.
-DON includes amino acids and urea and is an important source for nitrogen for corals and is preferred to nitrates -DIN includes ammonia/ammonium, nitrites and nitrates. Corals prefer ammonia over nitrates. (I think it's
important to note we are only testing for DIN.)

Phosphorus include Particulate Organic Phosphorus (POP), Dissolved Organic Phosphorus and Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (PIP).
-POP is particulates over a certain size.
-DOP includes phospholipids and is an important source of phosphorus for corals.
-DIP or orthophosphate or PO4 is an important source of phosphorus for corals (This is also the only form of phosphorus we are testing for).

Here's some of the refferences I've collected if you want to dig into it more. Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas is an excellent introduction to the roles of DOC in moderating the microbial processes on reefs.

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


Richard Ross "What's up with phosphate"



DOC stuff

Indirect effects of algae on coral: algae‐mediated, microbe‐induced coral mortality
Coral seperated from algae with a .02 µm filter die. Treatment with aampicillan prevents death.

Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism.
Coral DOC improves oxygen (autotrophy), algae DOC reduces oxygen (heterotrophy).

Role of elevated organic carbon levels and microbial activity in coral mortality

Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity
Algae releases significantly more DOC into the water than coral.

Pathologies and mortality rates caused by organic carbon and nutrient stressors in three Caribbean coral species.
Starch and sugars (doc) caused coral death but not high nitrates, phosphates or ammonium.

Visualization of oxygen distribution patterns caused by coral and algae

Biological oxygen demand optode analysis of coral reef-associated microbial communities exposed to algal exudates
Exposure to exudates derived from turf algae stimulated higher oxygen drawdown by the coral-associated bacteria.

Microbial ecology: Algae feed a shift on coral reefs

Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages.

Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching

Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton

Unseen players shape benthic competition on coral reefs.

Allelochemicals Produced by Brown Macroalgae of the Lobophora Genus Are Active against Coral Larvae and Associated Bacteria, Supporting Pathogenic Shifts to Vibrio Dominance.

Macroalgae decrease growth and alter microbial community structure of the reef-building coral, Porites astreoides.

Macroalgal extracts induce bacterial assemblage shifts and sublethal tissue stress in Caribbean corals.

Biophysical and physiological processes causing oxygen loss from coral reefs.

Global microbialization of coral reefs
DDAM Proven

Coral Reef Microorganisms in a Changing Climate, Fig 3

Ecosystem Microbiology of Coral Reefs: Linking Genomic, Metabolomic, and Biogeochemical Dynamics from Animal Symbioses to Reefscape Processes


Because sponges are essential players in the carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus cycle(s) on reefs here's some links to research done with them.

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges
(Chris Kenndall had a problem with low PO4 and had problems raising it with Neophos. Samples sent off showed phosphorus crystals developing in some of the sponges in his system accounting for at least some of his systems consumption.)

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.

And since we're discussing favorable and not so favorable bacteria here's a paper looking at how different corals and polyps are influencing the bacteria in the water column.

Aura-biomes are present in the water layer above coral reef benthic macro-organisms


Nitrogen Stuff

Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals

Amino acids a source of nitrogen for corals

Urea a source of nitrogen for corals

Diazotrpophs a source of nitrogen for corals

Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism


Phosphorus Stuff

An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral farming: effects of light, water motion and artificial foods

Comparing the capacity of five different dietary treatments to optimise growth and nutritional composition in two scleractinian corals

Elucidating an optimal diet for captive Acropora corals - ScienceDirect


Here's fig 4 from "Phosphorus Metabolism of Reef Organisms with ALgal Simbionts"
DIP DOP POP.jpg

Here's Fig. 3 from "Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism" Context‐dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral–algal mutualism(1).png
 
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JohnTheReefer

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I like to run a skimmer that is rated well over the water volume of the tank and do large water changes weekly. Over the years I have grown to despise powerheads of any type. Only sumps and returns for me! No filter socks or mechanical filtration.
 

stanleo

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The only thing I think I am unconventional in is that I refuse to quarantine or use hospital tanks or use any chemicals other than dosing for calcium and the other elements. I firmly believe that a fish's own immune system is strong enough to fight off anything that may be lurking in a tank. As long as the fish are well fed and relatively stress free, they can usually beat anything and I think using quarantine tanks and hospital tanks and dosing chemicals to try and control nutrients only adds to the fish's stress and makes it harder for them to heal.

The craziest thing I have ever done has to be when I took over my husband's 55 gallon that was a disgusting mess of algea and broke it all down with the fish and few surviving corals in a bucket, scrubbed all the rocks with a wire brush in tank water, rinsed out the sand, and replaced 90 % of the equipment and water in the tank. The tank worked pretty after that and the only fish I lost was a yellow tang. I did all of that in one day and that was my first venture into keeping a reef tank.
 

jeffchapok

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I don't quarantine or perform regular water changes, only 2 or 3 times per year. And I'm not even sure that's necessary, I just do it because you're "supposed to".
 

bmeily

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I have never ran filter socks. I actually didn't know about them on my first tank. My mentors at the time didn't have them. I only ran a skimmer and refuge on a DIY sump. After 2 years or so I built a DIY algae scrubber, not because I needed one but to see if I could. Tank was thriving and growing fast. I ended up moving to another country for a bit and sold the whole thing.
For my next tank though I will try out roller mat, probably DIY that too. I don't have time for socks. A Build thread should start in the fall after I get another move out of the way.
 

Appoloreefer

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1.a. I actually want algae. As much as we want bacterial diversity, I find any diversity is good. So long as the algae is not smothering my corals, then they can live in the tank. Ugly or not, reality is all these algae exists on wild coral reefs, and they probably have their own roles to play.
1.b. Survival of the fittest - I don't necessarily fit my water parameters to my live stock, but vice versa. Reality is different salts and everything can generate different sets of parameters. Even something like where one lives - that can matter. For example, Chicago is super dry and I lose 3% of my water from evaporation every day, and if I go for 3 days without topping up that's 10% less water in the tank, and obviously concentrations of a lot of things would increase, including salinity. I do have an auto-top off system but it is ugly, so instead whatever lives in the tank have to be able to live with the conditions or die. Simple.
1.c. Stir up the sand, a lot. I believe in 'balance' from chaos, which kinda is like @Paul B's thing in a sense. I let the aquarium actually go through 'hardships' that strengthen the system. The other day I changed the entire scape and while I do stir sand, it is only some of it. That other day when I was redoing the scape, I actually stirred up all the sand that was untouched for four months. Nothing happened. No spikes in any parameters, no angry fish or corals. Well, one angry clownfish, but that's more because I was changing up her home and I got about twenty bites from her that day. Yes I released a lot of detritus that day.
1.d. I starve my fish until they accept the food I want to feed them. I thought this was more common, but anyways yeah, kind of the same point as (1.b.)-ish, but also different. Once the fish gets hungry enough, they'll eat whatever they can.

2. Mixed two species of clownfish. I have done that multiple times, though always one individual of each species. Longest period has been a year, though none of it is because of deaths or injuries, just because I had to tear down aquariums.
I have to agree and say that I do whatever works for me because all systems are different and what one person does is not necessarily going to work for someone else believe me I have tried suggestions from other reefers and it did not work in my system. I live in Florida and it is humid so I do not have much water evaporation but do have an auto top off. I too have mixed clown species and they did fine, yes they did fight in the beginning but eventually got along and had them for years. I do not have sand because I like the simplicity of the cleaning of the tank and I attach corals or will when I get them to the bottom glass and the back along with the live rock. I have gone a day without feeding my fish and they did not waste away. I have to say I do not believe that there is truly any wrong or right way of doing, you have to do what works for your system, your home, and your life.
 

Appoloreefer

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I'm unconventional in many ways. Started in 2013 with a 40g breeder and then a 57g rimless and now a 32g biocube

I have never acclimated anything and havnt had issues.

I dont test any parameters but do water changes every few weeks. More often if things look unhappy

I dont mind some hair algae and the fish love it

I have a 4 inch hippp tang in a 32g biocube and she is loving life

I have 3 clowns in the same tank and they get along. I had a pair and the female died after 4 yrs so i took my brothers pair because he was getting out of the hobby

Currently i have over 20 corals and 6 fish with 2 shrimp and several turbo snails and a conch in the biocube

I have an upgraded return pump/innovative marine protein skinner and just started chaeto
I acclimate my fish but I do not quarantine my fish and have never had any sickness, ich, or any other diseases.
 

beaslbob

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Unconventional - Not based on or conforming to what is generally done or believed.
Unconventional Reef Keepers - Reef Aquarium Hobbyists who say, nah..I'll do it my way and still succeed. (my definition)

There are so many ways to do so many things in reef keeping and not everyone always does the same thing to accomplish the same goal. That was a mouth full! What's even better is that in some instances reef keepers employ certain methods, ideas and practices that many others might consider unconventional but are still very successful. Their motto is..."I'm not a part of this system!" :p Let's talk about it today!

1. What reefing practices, methods or ideas do you employ that others might consider to be "unconventional reefing?"

2. What's the craziest thing you have ever done in reefing that was a success?



unconventional yellow tang.jpg
I emphasize balancing out and stabilizing the system with macro algae right from the start. then starting the system with FW mollies.
As such I find filters, skimmers, and water changes are unnecessary. as a result 17 years ago i was banned from several message boards.

I guess that means I'm unconventional. Except back than everything was skimmers, water changes, and deep sea beds.

A few years later reports surfaced that after 5 years of operation a large percentage of those tanks 'crashed'.

Then funny thing happened. The hobby started emphasizing algae turf scrubbers and/or refugiums with macro algae.

But I have seen many such cycles over the decades.

my .02
 

NowGlazeIT

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I tried the QT thing, hated how it restricted me from buying and adding to the tank…..got velvet..lost my oldest and favorite fish friends. Almost went back to QTing but tried one more time. Almost 2 years now with zero casualties and 25 fish. Ich pops up frequently but the fish get over it.
 

ScottB

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I tried the QT thing, hated how it restricted me from buying and adding to the tank…..got velvet..lost my oldest and favorite fish friends. Almost went back to QTing but tried one more time. Almost 2 years now with zero casualties and 25 fish. Ich pops up frequently but the fish get over it.
Did you go fallow after velvet or just plow ahead?
 

LgTas

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No skimmer
No quarantine
NSW for water changes
Tap water for top ups
Like to have a small amount of algae in the DT

I treat my reef like an ecosystem. Imo increased diversity improves system resilience. Sterilising the system just makes it more prone to imbalances when you get one aspect slightly out. Running three tanks (two reef and one macroalgae) this way.
 

ScottB

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No skimmer
No quarantine
NSW for water changes
Tap water for top ups
Like to have a small amount of algae in the DT

I treat my reef like an ecosystem. Imo increased diversity improves system resilience. Sterilising the system just makes it more prone to imbalances when you get one aspect slightly out. Running three tanks (two reef and one macroalgae) this way.
You had me nodding "fine" until tap water. But then I am guessing your tap water is different than many of us. No fluoride. No chlorine. No chloramines.
 

LgTas

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You had me nodding "fine" until tap water. But then I am guessing your tap water is different than many of us. No fluoride. No chlorine. No chloramines.
We do have small amounts of Chlorine but certainly no fluoride or chloramines in Tasmanian water. Wife is a chemist for the state water dept. So I get daily updates on water quality. I use a decent dechlorinator.

It's worked for me.
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 73 51.8%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 72 51.1%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 36 25.5%
  • None.

    Votes: 31 22.0%
  • Other.

    Votes: 9 6.4%
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