Understanding the Hanna Ammonia checker in qt

Lostoften

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Looking for clarity on using the Hanna checker in qt. I have qt set up and have a Seachem ammonia badge, and Salifert test also. Salifert usually shows less than 0.15 so was looking for something with more detail. Understand that Hanna checks total ammonia not just the toxic that the badge measures. With the Hanna checker would I just be monitoring for an increase over baseline/prior day? Wondering what value on Hanna is concerning.

On a different tank yesterday, Hanna tested 0.27 and 0.25. Freshly made salt water 0.10. After a 30% water change it was 0.20.

Just tested a qt tank that isn’t as established and has anthias. I know this tank will need frequent water changes. The Seachem badge is showing yellowish, Salifert less than 0.15 and Hanna 0.44. I am preparing a small water changes.

Appreciate the thoughts/input.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I’m not entirely sure I understand the question. All of these devices can be used. 0.44 ppm total ammonia is not a big concern, but keeping it from going higher is a good plan.
 
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Lostoften

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Sorry, guess is there a value on the Hanna meter that would be alarming? I understand low ammonia is best, but the way Hanna measures it, it will not be 0.

From Seachem:
As little as 0.02 mg/L of free ammonia will produce a greenish hue on the detector surface. This corresponds to a total ammonia (both ionized and free ammonia) of 0.25 mg/L in marine water at pH 8.3.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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From it:

1. While ammonia is toxic at high levels, the levels needed to be lethal to a marine fish are higher than many people think. I’ve not seen any study in the literature that shows an LC50 (half of fish die) in less than 15 ppm total ammonia in seawater over 4 days or more of exposure at normal pH.

2. Sublethal toxic effects of ammonia, such as gill lesions observed by histopathology, do not seem to become significant until levels reach 5-10 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.1.

3. The toxicity of ammonia is a function of pH. At pH 8.5, toxic effects kick in at ammonia levels 2.5x lower than at pH 8.1. Likewise, at pH 7.8, it takes twice as much ammonia to be toxic as at pH 8.1. In a situation where ammonia might well reach toxic levels, such as a shipping bag, raising pH in the bag should not take place.

4. Toxic levels of ammonia are just not reached in typical operating reef aquaria. Seeing a measured value of 0.2 ppm, whether real or test error, is not a concern. It may be a benefit.
 
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Lostoften

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Unfortunately lost a wrasse after 50 days in QT following the current protocol. Question was raised regarding the validity of Seachem alert badge after being used for 30 days in copper. This is where recommendation for the Hanna checker was made.

Unfortunately, I think I was under feeding the tank and the fish died due to starvation.
 

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Make sure you're not using a freshwater or Nessler method Checker.
 
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Lostoften

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Make sure you're not using a freshwater or Nessler method Checker.
Not sure what that is, but Seachem badge is both fresh and salt, Salifert assume is marine and don’t believe Hanna is specific to aquariums HI794.
 
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From it:

1. While ammonia is toxic at high levels, the levels needed to be lethal to a marine fish are higher than many people think. I’ve not seen any study in the literature that shows an LC50 (half of fish die) in less than 15 ppm total ammonia in seawater over 4 days or more of exposure at normal pH.

2. Sublethal toxic effects of ammonia, such as gill lesions observed by histopathology, do not seem to become significant until levels reach 5-10 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.1.

3. The toxicity of ammonia is a function of pH. At pH 8.5, toxic effects kick in at ammonia levels 2.5x lower than at pH 8.1. Likewise, at pH 7.8, it takes twice as much ammonia to be toxic as at pH 8.1. In a situation where ammonia might well reach toxic levels, such as a shipping bag, raising pH in the bag should not take place.

4. Toxic levels of ammonia are just not reached in typical operating reef aquaria. Seeing a measured value of 0.2 ppm, whether real or test error, is not a concern. It may be a benefit.
Does the Hanna checker read consistently in presence of copper?
 
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Reading on another forum that seems it may be impacted for 48 hours from what another reefer found. Tested water this morning was 0.86 performed 10g/50% WC, brought it to 0.54 performed another 5 gallon and brought it to 0.46.

Dosed 10ml’s of copper, 1.23 via Hanna checker. And level was 0.68 (missed/spilled slight amount of reagent B).

Salifert showed <0.15 on the initial reading this morning. Seachem has been showing slight green.
 

MnFish1

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I would not do anything special about a Hanna reading of 0.5 ppm or less total ammonia. It takes more than 10 ppm total ammonia to kill a fish.
I think this is a mistake - though there are levels at with 50% of fish will die (assuming you're using an LD 50) - any level of ammonia is 'detrimental' - 0 is best. And the problem here is not the value at time x its the value at time x * 2. is it increasing, decreasing, the same.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I think this is a mistake - though there are levels at with 50% of fish will die (assuming you're using an LD 50) - any level of ammonia is 'detrimental' - 0 is best. And the problem here is not the value at time x its the value at time x * 2. is it increasing, decreasing, the same.

OK, we simply disagree. I do not believe that zero ammonia is best for a reef tank. :)
 

MnFish1

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OK, we simply disagree. I do not believe that zero ammonia is best for a reef tank. :)
I agree with you - that " absolute 0" is not best. However - with in and out - the level should be very close to 0. :). Correct? And again - we are talking about total ammonia (NH4) - There will always be some ammonia in a tank cycling between organisms - so suggesting I disagree is not anything I meant to suggest. Additionally - I also agree with you that at the average tank pH - an ammonia above zero (total) is not likely to be toxic - I would suggest that the goal is that its to be as close to zero as possible - i.e. in steady state. So - I'm not sure where the discussion point is?
 
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Lostoften

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Didn't mean to spark a debate and appreciate everyone's experiences. Question started from trying to control ammonia in a new QT (with cycled media). When I tested freshly made saltwater there was still 0.1 TAN,

Trying to do my best to get fish successfully through QT and into the display.
 

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