Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[Dan_P]

@taricha, the term “polymath” comes to mind when I read your study reports, especially so with this one. And you write good too!

I am going back to reread your post and see if I can come up with a semi-intelligent question.

 

[Dan_P]

How effective are algae treatments? Have you run across controlled studies comparing the effectiveness of all the stuff aquarists use to kill algae? Vibrant vs hydrogen peroxide vs fluconazole vs placebo?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Along those lines, it would be interesting to compare the outcomes for threads where people dose Algaefix to their tanks to those that dose Vibrant. My hypothesis is that there will be more negative outcomes from the Vibrant tanks, due to the tank owner's not being aware that they are really dosing an algaecide, and as a result being less cautious in their approach.

 

[jeffww]

I could see that being the case. In terms of what algaecides are effective, at least the active ingredients in vibrante and h2o2 are used on a massive scale to control algae like ponds and lakes.

 

[Ardeus]

There's been a huge reaction to the tropic marin salt issue but this is 10 times worse because there was (and still is) a deliberate intention of the manufacturer to hide information about their product.

I used Vibrant in my tank and had I known that there was an algaecide in the product, I wouldn't have used it and I wouldn't have lost a few corals.

 

[rtparty]

This thread and topic should be 40 pages deep on multiple threads already.

This is a flat out lie and false advertisement by UWC from day one. They didn't develop anything. There is no bacteria in the bottle.

They just relabelled another product, slapped a clever (read deceitful) marketing package on the whole thing, and made bank.

Snake oil 101.

 

[Ardeus]

There's likely bacteria in there too and it probably consumes the decaying algae.

 

[rtparty]

There's likely bacteria in there too and it probably consumes the decaying algae.

Nope. The graphs go over all of this. The ingredient list on Vibrant is completely false and a lie.

I'd be running for the hills if I'm UWC. Mislabeling products like this is not looked upon lightly.

 

[Hermie]

This is a flat out lie and false advertisement by UWC from day one. They didn't develop anything. There is no bacteria in the bottle.

would you mind quoting specifically where the OP states or concludes that there is no bacteria in the bottle? I just did not catch it on first glance of the posts.

 

[rtparty]

would you mind quoting specifically where the OP states or concludes that there is no bacteria in the bottle? I just did not catch it on first glance of the posts.

"A paper shared by @jeffww illustrated the use of a distinctive Bromphenol Blue color response (non-pH) to detect quats dried on surfaces. I noted a quat-like color change with both Algaefix and Vibrant, but in none of almost a dozen bottled bacteria hobby products or saltwater."

Italics added.

Later in the first post:

"Since both the Carbon and Hydrogen atoms are bonded in the same way in these vacuum-dried samples of AlgaeFix and Vibrant, this covers all possible organics in the residue."

 

[Christoph]

In addition Bacteria would have a hard time alongside high concentration of a quaternary ammonium salt.

 

[polyppal]

Tour of the Vibrant factory

 

[jeffww]

I was able to pass vibrant through a 0.2um filter quite easily. I really doubt there was any purposeful addition of bacteria to the liquid. From experience, filtering bacteria is normally quite hard! Regardless, any putative bacteria in it probably has nothing to do with its algacidal activity.

 

[Hermie]

Thank you all for clarifying

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Well I for one, am relieved that no bacteria here harmed in the making of this product!

 

[Screwgunner]

All I know is it took 7 weeks to melt my green hair. After that cyano then dinos . Word it the wise take care of your algea another way!!

 

[Doctorgori]

wow, thank you OP ….
…Honestly, I appreciate the work but dammed if I understood any of it besides Algaefix = Vibrant + 50% markup

 

[ScottB]

Along those lines, it would be interesting to compare the outcomes for threads where people dose Algaefix to their tanks to those that dose Vibrant. My hypothesis is that there will be more negative outcomes from the Vibrant tanks, due to the tank owner's not being aware that they are really dosing an algaecide, and as a result being less cautious in their approach.

This was a concern I expressed in the precursor thread. Maybe not a problem if the stuff breaks down readily. But it does not seem to break down easily and is likely to accumulate.

It is hardly possible to overdose bacteria, but quat salts are a whole other thing.

 

[taricha]

How effective are algae treatments? Have you run across controlled studies comparing the effectiveness of all the stuff aquarists use to kill algae? Vibrant vs hydrogen peroxide vs fluconazole vs placebo?

Dan, that sounds like a great review article and I wish that I had run across such a thing! (Or had a working model of such info in my head.)
H2O2 (and occcasionally similar oxidizers) are used on some large scale water body remediation projects, but it's pretty much limited to blooms of planktonic cyanobacteria. Studies show that sensitivity to H2O2 is far higher for cyanobacteria than other classes. As hobbyists know, the benthic mats aren't so easily disrupted.

Fluconazole for algae I've really only run into discussions on that in the forum. I haven't read anything academic on fluco as algaecide.
Commercial aquaculture often uses stuff that wouldn't be useful in the hobby (copper sulfate etc.)

(Unrelatedly, I'd like to know which algaecide Dino-X is. I haven't seen it named anywhere. But it used to be Algea-X.)

There's likely bacteria in there too and it probably consumes the decaying algae.

I'll directly address what else isn't in Vibrant in Part 3. (the answer is probably nothing else interesting in Vibrant in any relvant amount).
Part 1 eliminates any non-volatile organics, like the Aspartic acid claimed on the label. (vinegar or ethanol etc would have been lost in the vacuum drying so Part 1 doesn't eliminate them)

 

[GARRIGA]

If Vibrant is fancy marketing for Algaefix then the question remains if Algaefix is safe in a reef aquarium. API claims it is. Users have reported mixed results.