Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[ScottB]

If Vibrant is fancy marketing for Algaefix then the question remains if Algaefix is safe in a reef aquarium. API claims it is. Users have reported mixed results.

I don't think there is much argument that the products "work". Algaecides do what they do: kill algae.

IMO, there are great many "good" algae living in a mature reef tank and an algaecide can be very indiscriminate. That leaves a lot of scorched earth in your reef. Somebody is going to fill that void. Will you like the new competitor more than the old one(s)?

For a FOWLR tank I say have at it. A softy tank? Why not? But if you are stocked with a bunch of acropora, caveat emptor.

 

[Tamberav]

Here is what I am getting from this thread..

16oz of algae fix is $16 and Vibrant is $38

 

[Chrisv.]

This is awesome.

 

[piranhaman00]

Will the big retailers continue to sell? Will r2r allow them as a sponsor?

 

[rtparty]

Will the big retailers continue to sell? Will r2r allow them as a sponsor?

As a hobby we keep hearing, "tell us what's in the product and let us decide." "Be open and honest", etc....

If the big boys don't crack down on this once they have the info in front of them, we'll know it's all a bunch of lip service.

Speaking for myself, I don't really care that Vibrant is an algaecide in the end. Just tell us that on the bottle. Don't lie about the ingredients and story behind the product. The lying and deceitful business practices are what bother me here.

 

[mojo8427]

Will the big retailers continue to sell? Will r2r allow them as a sponsor?

I cannot imagine that retailers would sell what is obviously mislabeled and misrepresented product. That would leave them open to litigation. As far as the owner, I hope for a fitting punishment civil and criminal.

 

[mojo8427]

The EPA has gone after these fraudulent businesses before. Time will tell in this case.

https://yosemite.epa.gov/oarm/alj/alj_web_docket.nsf/All%20Content%20-%20Web/982B32318A242AA285257FBC00701F3E/%24File/aquarium-products-ifr-063095.pdf

 

[BrianAnthony]

I always viewed Vibrant like an anti-biotic. Meaning, it doesn't distinguish between good and bad algae. It just targets all algae (zooanth to macro) much like an antibiotic targets all bacteria. That's why there's so much mixed results. People want a magic pill or magic bottle and companies want to give it to you because you'll pay for it. Vibrant works. It's just not magic.

This is the way I view Vibrant. I always could be wrong.

 

[Chrisv.]

Will the big retailers continue to sell? Will r2r allow them as a sponsor?

Maybe I'm missing something, but why should stores stop carrying the product or turn them away as sponsors?

Are the marketing practices deceptive? Apparently. But I've had decent luck using the product. If I needed to I'd continue to use the bottle I have, even knowing it's algae fix. I probably won't buy a second, knowing that I can use diluted algaefix.

 

[Malcontent]

Good old Algaefix whose very own SDS say it's toxic to aquatic life and has wiped out many tanks. I used it in a freshwater tank once and it killed a bunch of fish and crippled others. And my experience wasn't unique. Then Tetra and Fritz made their own versions...sigh

 

[mojo8427]

I always viewed Vibrant like an anti-biotic. Meaning, it doesn't distinguish between good and bad algae. It just targets all algae (zooanth to macro) much like an antibiotic targets all bacteria. That's why there's so much mixed results. People want a magic pill or magic bottle and companies want to give it to you because you'll pay for it. Vibrant works. It's just not magic.

This is the way I view Vibrant. I always could be wrong.

AlgaeFix works per bottle instructions and its active ingredient labeled. Consumer can do their own pros/cons assessment knowing what they are putting into their tank.

Vibrant is AlgaeFix but its bottle says it isn't AlgaeFix, its bacteria. It's simply a lie. Some had thousands in acros, believing they were dosing bacteria. Most of them would not have dosed AlgaeFix as it is very much an unknown but they did dose Vibrant. If you don't see the issue with that...

Antibiotics can be both broad spectrum and target many bacteria. It can also be narrow spectrum and target specific types. No one knew what Vibrant was until Taricha did his Voodoo in this thread and the previous one.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why should stores stop carrying the product or turn them away as sponsors?

Are the marketing practices deceptive? Apparently. But I've had decent luck using the product. If I needed to I'd continue to use the bottle I have, even knowing it's algae fix. I probably won't buy a second, knowing that I can use diluted algaefix.

If amazon was selling Round-Up weed killer and it was actually mislabeled Agent Orange... you might be upset and I think Amazon would likely stop selling it..

 

[rtparty]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why should stores stop carrying the product or turn them away as sponsors?

Are the marketing practices deceptive? Apparently. But I've had decent luck using the product. If I needed to I'd continue to use the bottle I have, even knowing it's algae fix. I probably won't buy a second, knowing that I can use diluted algaefix.

I think it comes down to how does UWC respond.

Come out and be honest or try to hide behind proprietary nonsense and say Taricha made all this up?

If they are willing to lie this much about what is in their products, would you want them as a business partner selling their items?

 

[Ardeus]

I'm curious to see how brs will deal with this because they've been pushing this product as a way to "avoid the ugly phase".

I tried warning them a couple of times.

 

[mojo8427]

I think it comes down to how does UWC respond.

Come out and be honest or try to hide behind proprietary nonsense and say Taricha made all this up?

If they are willing to lie this much about what is in their products, would you want them as a business partner selling their items?

In the prior thread, UWC said:
It is bacteria.
It isn't bacteria.
The bacteria made the quat then we filtered the bacteria out.
I'll come clean in a few months.

I'm not holding my breath for honesty but I would very much appreciate it and would be a welcome surprise.

 

[GARRIGA]

I don't think there is much argument that the products "work". Algaecides do what they do: kill algae.

IMO, there are great many "good" algae living in a mature reef tank and an algaecide can be very indiscriminate. That leaves a lot of scorched earth in your reef. Somebody is going to fill that void. Will you like the new competitor more than the old one(s)?

For a FOWLR tank I say have at it. A softy tank? Why not? But if you are stocked with a bunch of acropora, caveat emptor.

I'm actually one that promotes some growth of algae. They do filter the water and something needs to feed my CUC. Just curious if in case of a tank overrun with algae would this be a viable fix. I normally solve that with phosphate remover and carbon dosing to temporarily bottom my nutrients out while limiting feeding and black out for a few days then resume normal operations with heavy feeding so my bottomed out nutrients no longer persist. Has worked for me but I'd love a solution not requiring a blackout and reduced feedings. Assuming this treatment didn't have long term affects or caused issues for corals and inverts during treatment.

 

[BrianAnthony]

AlgaeFix works per bottle instructions and its active ingredient labeled. Consumer can do their own pros/cons assessment knowing what they are putting into their tank.

Vibrant is AlgaeFix but its bottle says it isn't AlgaeFix, its bacteria. It's simply a lie. Some had thousands in acros, believing they were dosing bacteria. Most of them would not have dosed AlgaeFix as it is very much an unknown but they did dose Vibrant. If you don't see the issue with that...

Antibiotics can be both broad spectrum and target many bacteria. It can also be narrow spectrum and target specific types. No one knew what Vibrant was until Taricha did his Voodoo in this thread and the previous one.

If amazon was selling Round-Up weed killer and it was actually mislabeled Agent Orange... you might be upset and I think Amazon would likely stop selling it..

Right... Key word.. "Spectrum"

 

[rtparty]

I'm actually one that promotes some growth of algae. They do filter the water and something needs to feed my CUC. Just curious if in case of a tank overrun with algae would this be a viable fix. I normally solve that with phosphate remover and carbon dosing to temporarily bottom my nutrients out while limiting feeding and black out for a few days then resume normal operations with heavy feeding so my bottomed out nutrients no longer persist. Has worked for me but I'd love a solution not requiring a blackout and reduced feedings. Assuming this treatment didn't have long term affects or caused issues for corals and inverts during treatment.

Alage is 100% a part of every healthy system out there. Algae has been vilified for years and that's wrong.

However, products like Vibrant do have a place in the hobby IMO. We, as consumers, just need to know exactly what they are or at a minimum how they work. Proprietary items are needed in the world. It's an incentive to innovate. But flat out lying about the product is wrong.

Can you imagine buying a product for your dog, cat, kid, whatever that has an ingredient list and story that was 100% made up? Then find out the real ingredients CAN be super dangerous to some life?

 

[BrianAnthony]

So.. has it been proven that there is no bacteria in the bottle?

 

[GARRIGA]

Alage is 100% a part of every healthy system out there. Algae has been vilified for years and that's wrong.

However, products like Vibrant do have a place in the hobby IMO. We, as consumers, just need to know exactly what they are or at a minimum how they work. Proprietary items are needed in the world. It's an incentive to innovate. But flat out lying about the product is wrong.

Can you imagine buying a product for your dog, cat, kid, whatever that has an ingredient list and story that was 100% made up? Then find out the real ingredients CAN be super dangerous to some life?

Understood on the importance of algae and the possible dishonesty by Vibrant. Just wondering if Algaefix could be employed strategically to solve a major algae outbreak. I have a proven solution that has worked for me and jsut curious how Algaefix might serve as an alternative. Will likely help others more since the last two that caused an issue for me were identified and likely not being repeated. Yet knowledge is power. never hurts to have all options known.

 

[Seneca]

This is lawsuit material. If anyone plausibly lost any corals due to dosing a chemical material you were specifically avoiding in favor of a bacterial product you are owed damages.

Fraud should not be tolerated.

Any lawyers watching should order a bottle of vibrant sent directly to an analytic lab to ensure chain of custody.