Unknown Neurological Wrasse Disease (UNWD)

mcgullen

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 19, 2022
Messages
104
Reaction score
75
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
San Diego
Hi @Jay Hemdal

What do you think of this : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28930084/

"Clinical signs reflect the fact that the nervous system is targeted. In addition to mortalities of up to 100%, infected larvae and juvenile stages often show abnormal swimming behavior, including vertical
positioning and spinning; flexing of the body; and muscle tremors."
 

Attachments

  • Viral-Nervous-Vecrosis-Betanodavirus-Infections-in-Fish.pdf
    159.3 KB · Views: 18
REEFTIDE
OP
Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
12,366
Reaction score
12,214
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
Hi @Jay Hemdal

What do you think of this : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28930084/

"Clinical signs reflect the fact that the nervous system is targeted. In addition to mortalities of up to 100%, infected larvae and juvenile stages often show abnormal swimming behavior, including vertical
positioning and spinning; flexing of the body; and muscle tremors."

Thanks, I had that paper in my files, but had forgotten about it! Dr. Roy is one of the top three aquarium fish disease people in the US, I put a lot of trust in his material.

The problem with viral diseases is that without histopathology or some other diagnostic tool, we are just matching up symptoms. Still, in this case, it sure sounds similar! I just wish they had mentioned they had found it in wrasses.

I was in contact with Dr. Roy about another project, but I'm reluctant to ask him about this. Akin to having a physician you play poker with and saying to them "Hey Doc, do you think this spot is on my arm is anything to worry about?" It is just poor form (grin).

Jay
 

nereefpat

5000 Club Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
5,991
Reaction score
6,581
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Central Nebraska
but I'm reluctant to ask him about this. Akin to having a physician you play poker with and saying to them "Hey Doc, do you think this spot is on my arm is anything to worry about?" It is just poor form (grin).

Jay

What, the delicate genius can only by disturbed if there's money involved? (Kidding, George Castanza reference).

Without me knowing him, he would likely consider you a colleague and give you an opinion.
 
OP
Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
12,366
Reaction score
12,214
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
What, the delicate genius can only by disturbed if there's money involved? (Kidding, George Castanza reference).

Without me knowing him, he would likely consider you a colleague and give you an opinion.

I ended up asking him this morning (I'm on FB with him). He replied with some information and said that he would like to see a sample fish in NBF. I asked back what the cost would be and waiting to hear about that.

Jay
 

Fishfreak2009

Follow Your Passions!
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
1,350
Reaction score
2,950
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Michigan
Honestly I wonder if it is a myxozoan parasite? Similar to whirling disease, but affecting smaller labrids?

Someone should look into price for histopath at UFlorida if they have a specimen affected. I know it used to be only $120 or so for full histopath on amphibians via Dr Ossiboff. Had him do a full histopath on a few different imported glass frogs for me back around 2014 or so. I'd try to have one of the doctors I do research with at RUSVM look at one, as he studies primarily myxozoan parasites in marine fish, but pretty sure the cost to ship a specimen to St Kitts would be astronomical.
 
AS
OP
Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
12,366
Reaction score
12,214
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
Honestly I wonder if it is a myxozoan parasite? Similar to whirling disease, but affecting smaller labrids?

Someone should look into price for histopath at UFlorida if they have a specimen affected. I know it used to be only $120 or so for full histopath on amphibians via Dr Ossiboff. Had him do a full histopath on a few different imported glass frogs for me back around 2014 or so. I'd try to have one of the doctors I do research with at RUSVM look at one, as he studies primarily myxozoan parasites in marine fish, but pretty sure the cost to ship a specimen to St Kitts would be astronomical.

I can't rule out a myxozoan component to this. I contacted Dr. Roy at UF/IFAS yesterday. He wants to see a fresh specimen preserved in NBF. He'll get a price worked up, but he thinks he'll need to do PCR on it.

Once I get a price and protocols for sampling, I'll post it to the aquarium curators listserve, since they are the ones who would have the funds to do this

Jay
 

Dryanimtt

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
275
Reaction score
189
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Nova
I had the same thing happen to a malnuras wrasse a couple of months ago. Was so strange. Had him in the tank for months. Then one random day he started swimming funny and just deteriorated over the course of about 3 days before I had to take him out of the tank. Never could understand it.
 
AquaCave Logo Banner

Dryanimtt

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
275
Reaction score
189
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Nova
I had the same thing happen to a malnuras wrasse a couple of months ago. Was so strange. Had him in the tank for months. Then one random day he started swimming funny and just deteriorated over the course of about 3 days before I had to take him out of the tank. Never could understand it.
The fish was quarantined prior to going into the display, mind you.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

Shooter6

Valuable Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
2,071
Reaction score
1,011
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Something to consider is stress to capture/ shipping causing the fish to suffer mental shock. ( shell shock) and the body shutting down.

I have witnessed this in humans and some animals in combat zones. People mentally breaking and dying due to environmental stressors.
Of people suffering otherwise minor trauma but dying do to the shock.
 

Poseidon03

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
294
Reaction score
190
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
I had 3 different wrasses do this to me... Finally got one that lived past 3 months... Woke up to see it on the floor yesterday. I have a mesh top too. Somehow it still got out :( It's sad cause he was my favorite fish. I just posted not too long ago about how I was so happy to finally get a wrasse that didn't have problems.
 

jtichenor

Active Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
116
Reaction score
72
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Portland, OR
I just lost a $125 wrasse to these symptoms. Was fine for about 3 weeks after purchase and then started to exhibit all the same symptoms described here.... lying on it's side and swimming upside down with very little control. It lived in the sump for about 6 weeks with no signs of improvement. It was eating but not very well. I had to go on a week long vacation and had to put him down as I didn't want an ammonia spike while I was away.
 

SteveLL

New Member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Apr 11, 2022
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
San Francisco
I just saw this thread and coincidentally have been trying to treat a Lineatus wrasse that I QTed for 3 weeks and had been doing well in my DT for a number of additional weeks until last week when he exhibited the symptoms everyone has been describing (this also happened to a rhomboid wrasse I had 6 months ago). I had assumed that the fish had either spinal injury or infection of the swim bladder and have been dosing kanaplex, metroplex, praziquantel, nitrofurazone and doing 5 hour dips with enrofloxacin. The fish originally had white stringy poop but doesn’t seem to be eating in QT and I’m losing hope.

It is curious that this phenomenon/disease is occurring more frequently now as I’ve kept saltwater for many years and just recently seen this happening.
 
OP
Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
12,366
Reaction score
12,214
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
I just saw this thread and coincidentally have been trying to treat a Lineatus wrasse that I QTed for 3 weeks and had been doing well in my DT for a number of additional weeks until last week when he exhibited the symptoms everyone has been describing (this also happened to a rhomboid wrasse I had 6 months ago). I had assumed that the fish had either spinal injury or infection of the swim bladder and have been dosing kanaplex, metroplex, praziquantel, nitrofurazone and doing 5 hour dips with enrofloxacin. The fish originally had white stringy poop but doesn’t seem to be eating in QT and I’m losing hope.

It is curious that this phenomenon/disease is occurring more frequently now as I’ve kept saltwater for many years and just recently seen this happening.

Tough to say if it is more common now, or are these dwarf wrasses more common in the trade now?

One key diagnostic that may be missing with your fish is that in these cases, the fish still tries to feed. If your fish stopped feeding, there may be something else going on.

Jay
 
AquaCave Logo Banner

Peninsula Reef Tanks...

  • I currently have one

    Votes: 32 23.5%
  • I used to have one set up

    Votes: 5 3.7%
  • I would like to try one in the future

    Votes: 73 53.7%
  • No interest

    Votes: 26 19.1%
Chemi-pure.com - All-In-One Aquarium Filtration
Top