Unknown Neurological Wrasse Disease (UNWD)

[vetteguy53081]

Im glad to have found this thread. I purchased a pintail that arrived and it was a bit still in the bag as I was observing it during acclimation. During drip, I noticed it handt moved and thought it might just be acting as a wrasse does. As soon as he went into the tank, the video shows his symptoms. I purchased him from a trusted quarantine vendor so I have no doubt in it being healthy prior to shipping. I first thought a swim bladder/spinal injury but it could potentially be unwd. Thoughts?

Without seeing a video under white lighting, will be hard to confirm. Often when it is in the bag cold, it can have this effect and suddenly bounce back.
Video will be helpful

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Im glad to have found this thread. I purchased a pintail that arrived and it was a bit still in the bag as I was observing it during acclimation. During drip, I noticed it handt moved and thought it might just be acting as a wrasse does. As soon as he went into the tank, the video shows his symptoms. I purchased him from a trusted quarantine vendor so I have no doubt in it being healthy prior to shipping. I first thought a swim bladder/spinal injury but it could potentially be unwd. Thoughts?

Hi, I don’t see a video attached. You Tube videos work pretty well.
Jay

 

[nikesb]

Hi, I don’t see a video attached. You Tube videos work pretty well.
Jay

Apologies, just reuploaded it to the post

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Im glad to have found this thread. I purchased a pintail that arrived and it was a bit still in the bag as I was observing it during acclimation. During drip, I noticed it handt moved and thought it might just be acting as a wrasse does. As soon as he went into the tank, the video shows his symptoms. I purchased him from a trusted quarantine vendor so I have no doubt in it being healthy prior to shipping. I first thought a swim bladder/spinal injury but it could potentially be unwd. Thoughts?

O.K., I can see the video now. IMO - this is different than UNWD, this fish is breathing fast and seems too weak to swim, more like it is moribund/dying. Fish with typical UNWD will swim in spirals, but won't breath fast and will still try to eat.

Jay

 

[Dweezilz]

Just found this post. I got this McCosker's Flasher Wrasse two weeks ago and he was perfectly fine for those two weeks and then this happened a day ago. Just a bit curved, nose up, tail down and skimming the water all over the place on top. He was bumping a bit into things too. Last night I turned the lights off to calm him and he freaked out trying to jump out of the tank spastically for 10 seconds. He's calm now and just skimming the water nose up again today. He is trying to eat and managed to grab a few mysis and that's it. Seems similar to what is being discussed here. It could be my imagination but it did seem like his lower lip looked odd to me so maybe he banged into something. It looks more or less normal but I thought it might look like it's sticking out a bit.

 

[Dweezilz]

@Jay Hemdal So my wrasse is currently struggling with this, still totally eating when he manages to position himself properly but in general is way worse today floating around, curling up, near the top of the water, occasionally letting himself sink down and spastically darting back up in circles etc. I'm waiting on my Clove Oil from Amazon and will put him down later today. I am still a bit concerned that my water could be contaminated for any future wrasse I might get but I can't seem to find anything that says the water for sure is infected, but could be (if it's indeed NNV). No clue how long the virus could remain or be hosted by other fish without symptoms if so. I've tried to read through this entire thread and saw you discuss the link to a study I found on Google about NNV and Betanodavirus / VER. In addition I did find two references to it being found in wrasses in the wild. Not sure if anything more has come of your inquiry but since I'm going through it now, I wanted to see if you had any updates and give you these links.

High nervous necrosis virus (NNV) diversity in wild wrasse (Labridae) in Norway and Sweden

Betanodavirus and VER Disease: A 30-year Research Review

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal So my wrasse is currently struggling with this, still totally eating when he manages to position himself properly but in general is way worse today floating around, curling up, near the top of the water, occasionally letting himself sink down and spastically darting back up in circles etc. I'm waiting on my Clove Oil from Amazon and will put him down later today. I am still a bit concerned that my water could be contaminated for any future wrasse I might get but I can't seem to find anything that says the water for sure is infected, but could be (if it's indeed NNV). No clue how long the virus could remain or be hosted by other fish without symptoms if so. I've tried to read through this entire thread and saw you discuss the link to a study I found on Google about NNV and Betanodavirus / VER. In addition I did find two references to it being found in wrasses in the wild. Not sure if anything more has come of your inquiry but since I'm going through it now, I wanted to see if you had any updates and give you these links.

High nervous necrosis virus (NNV) diversity in wild wrasse (Labridae) in Norway and Sweden

Betanodavirus and VER Disease: A 30-year Research Review

Yes - those studies came up when I first researched this. However, the samples that were sent out for histopathology did NOT indicate that it was a Betanodavirus. I really thought that would be the smoking gun for this syndrome, but it seems not to be.

So far, I have not seen a case where it seemed to be contagious to fish outside of the group that was imported. What I mean is that home aquarists who have this issue always seem to have it with a singleton and it doesn't involve fish previously in the tank. Some public aquariums that have seen it with groups of wrasses brought in at the same time have seen a percentage of the group have this issue, but not all of them (perhaps 5 to 20%?). The remaining fish do fine.

Jay

 

[Dweezilz]

Yes - those studies came up when I first researched this. However, the samples that were sent out for histopathology did NOT indicate that it was a Betanodavirus. I really thought that would be the smoking gun for this syndrome, but it seems not to be.

So far, I have not seen a case where it seemed to be contagious to fish outside of the group that was imported. What I mean is that home aquarists who have this issue always seem to have it with a singleton and it doesn't involve fish previously in the tank. Some public aquariums that have seen it with groups of wrasses brought in at the same time have seen a percentage of the group have this issue, but not all of them (perhaps 5 to 20%?). The remaining fish do fine.

Jay

Thanks Jay! I missed the part where it wasn't that studied virus. Did the samples sent show any type of virus at all?

I guess maybe I won't replace the wrasse with any others. Just not worth it. Sad because he was so cool looking and lit up when he flashed his colors every evening showing off. I need to euthanize him tomorrow as the Clove Oil just arrived and I don't have in me to do tonight. I've never done that before and I'm not looking forward to it. He actually managed to eat 3 more mysis that happened to drift right in front of him. So odd to see him look so healthy otherwise. Ugg...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay! I missed the part where it wasn't that studied virus. Did the samples sent show any type of virus at all?

I guess maybe I won't replace the wrasse with any others. Just not worth it. Sad because he was so cool looking and lit up when he flashed his colors every evening showing off. I need to euthanize him tomorrow as the Clove Oil just arrived and I don't have in me to do tonight. I've never done that before and I'm not looking forward to it. He actually managed to eat 3 more mysis that happened to drift right in front of him. So odd to see him look so healthy otherwise. Ugg...

No - the histopaths did not show any of the expected viruses. Since the researchers (and myself) all had the hypothesis that this was a virus, and it didn't seem to be one, they stopped sampling. There is still one public aquarium that may be working on this issue, but they aren't discussing their work yet.

If you buy post-quarantine wrasses, they may be past this problem by the time you get them.....


Jay

 

[Max93]

Just found this too trying to figure out what’s wrong with my wrasse. I’ve had him for a year and half (he jumped out once behind the tank a few months ago) but never showed any issues.

he stopped eating, I suspected a internal parasite so I treated the tank with prazi and also fed metro/focus. The wrasse started eating and has been for over a month since the treatment. This is a year and a half after I got the wrasse.

I read all the various potential symptoms for spinal injury or bladder issue, but his symptoms don’t match. He does more of a spiral swim and still eats like he wants to. Today though, he deteriorated much quicker and is showing his bright blue throat at all times. The symptoms and behaviors look exactly like the videos shared in this thread.

I put him in a Tupperware with holes so he can get a break in the display. I’m hoping it’ll pass, but doesn’t seem like he will based on the information here.

 

[MjOB]

Hey there,

Can you tell if that's what I'm dealing with? I got this Scott's Fairy Wrasse from a reputable quarantine vendor 1 month ago. My tank is only about 8 months old but parameters have all been stable and he'd been doing great up until he started doing this 2 days ago.
5 days ago my white tail bristle tooth tang has started to pick on him for a couple of hours each night after lights go out.
3 days ago during one of the attacks he tried to jump out of the tank and hit the lid.
I then started noticing him doing this 2 days ago. I had assumed it was a spinal cord injury. But at feeds he swims perfectly fine up to the water surface and uses his tail well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey there,

Can you tell if that's what I'm dealing with? I got this Scott's Fairy Wrasse from a reputable quarantine vendor 1 month ago. My tank is only about 8 months old but parameters have all been stable and he'd been doing great up until he started doing this 2 days ago.
5 days ago my white tail bristle tooth tang has started to pick on him for a couple of hours each night after lights go out.
3 days ago during one of the attacks he tried to jump out of the tank and hit the lid.
I then started noticing him doing this 2 days ago. I had assumed it was a spinal cord injury. But at feeds he swims perfectly fine up to the water surface and uses his tail well.

Does it still show interest in food? It may not effectively feed, but does it look at the food? If so, this is pretty much the UNWD issue. Even if it ignores the food, it still looks like it could be that issue. I don't see any obvious damage from the tang here.

Jay

 

[MjOB]

Does it still show interest in food? It may not effectively feed, but does it look at the food? If so, this is pretty much the UNWD issue. Even if it ignores the food, it still looks like it could be that issue. I don't see any obvious damage from the tang here.

Jay

Yes it has interest in food. Once I place food in the tank he swims and eats. Although he does appear to be doing worse. I just fed him to take a video of him. As I was uploading the 1st video I looked at him and he seemed to be doing better again - so took a 2nd video, but then once he's done eating goes back to how he was in the original video.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes it has interest in food. Once I place food in the tank he swims and eats. Although he does appear to be doing worse. I just fed him to take a video of him. As I was uploading the 1st video I looked at him and he seemed to be doing better again - so took a 2nd video, but then once he's done eating goes back to how he was in the original video.

You seeing the wrasse hit the lid is interesting in that 99% of the people who call this a "spinal injury" never see any injury happen. In your case though, you need to try and tie in the cause and effect better - was the wrasse o.k. for the day after the strike? Could it have had symptoms sooner, but you just didn't notice? The reason that I ask is that mechanical injuries tend to follow the "sprained foot" model - the injury happens and the pain is immediate and acute. You don't sprain your foot and then walk fine until a day later and then suddenly can't walk.

Jay

 

[MjOB]

You seeing the wrasse hit the lid is interesting in that 99% of the people who call this a "spinal injury" never see any injury happen. In your case though, you need to try and tie in the cause and effect better - was the wrasse o.k. for the day after the strike? Could it have had symptoms sooner, but you just didn't notice? The reason that I ask is that mechanical injuries tend to follow the "sprained foot" model - the injury happens and the pain is immediate and acute. You don't sprain your foot and then walk fine until a day later and then suddenly can't walk.

Jay

It is possible he had symptoms sooner and I just didn't notice.
About a week prior he had been doing the vertical swimming but only when up against the front panel when he'd follow me if I walked across the room. I didn't think much of it because I see a lot of my fish go vertical when up against a wall, but he was definitely doing it for prolonged periods (5-10 minutes). I don't recall him doing that anywhere else other than the front panel until after he hit the lid.
It was probably 9pm 2/20 that he hit the lid. I do 3 feeds/day and at morning and afternoon feeds on 2/21 I didn't notice any difference in him, but it was evening of 2/21 I started noticing the vertical swimming away from the wall, but it corrected during the feed.
2/22 outside of feeds I pretty much only saw him doing the vertical swimming
2/23 was the videos I posted, and actually just a couple hours later he started lying on the sand and not move at all for 5 minutes at a time.
Today he's mostly lying on the sand bed but occasionally swimming either vertical or upside down. Until late last night I had never seen him upside down. He's definitely getting worse as time goes on.

 

[sfin52]

Yes - one of my strong suspicions is that it is a viral disease. It could be related to VHS, or it could be another type of virus.

Jay

I had a Solon wrasse starting doing this after qt. I had to remove all fish from dt due to ich and the Solon wrasse I had for a few yrs.

I strong suspect a head injury because it jumped and hit the lid. I was about a week after putting it back into the dt that it stated doing what you described.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had a Solon wrasse starting doing this after qt. I had to remove all fish from dt due to ich and the Solon wrasse I had for a few yrs.

I strong suspect a head injury because it jumped and hit the lid. I was about a week after putting it back into the dt that it stated doing what you described.

So - the syndrome we are describing shows up in the first few weeks of a fish's acquisition - since you had the solon's for a few years, it doesn't fit the typical progression of symptoms.

Jay

 

[sfin52]

So - the syndrome we are describing shows up in the first few weeks of a fish's acquisition - since you had the solon's for a few years, it doesn't fit the typical progression of symptoms.

Jay

Right but can it lay dormant? Or is it only seen in the first few weeks and after that something else

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Right but can it lay dormant? Or is it only seen in the first few weeks and after that something else

I’ve never heard of it showing up in fish that have been in a tank longer than 3 or 4 months. It could happen, I just don’t have any record of it doing that. Since we don’t know the cause, it’s tough to say if it can lay dormant or not.
Jay

 

[TK_KW]

Jay, thoughts on this one? Was normal up until I noticed yesterday when I got home from work. Finished 14 days of copper and did sterile trasfer. This is about 4 days out of copper. And was perfect during ramp up of copper, and the 14day treatment

Golden

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