Simon_M
Active Member
There are two "truths" about (marine) fishkeeping:
1. We don't keep Fish - we keep (or maintain) water...
2. It is not IF you will upgrade, but WHEN you will (inevitably) upsize (or change) your Tank.
On the second point, I have a Juwel Vision 180 LED Marine Aquarium. It is really a Juwel Tropical Tank with the two LED lights exchanged for a Blue and Marine versions (19W + 19W). I previously kept Marine Fish about 35 years ago, and remembering that Juwel made AIO tanks, I thought it would make a "good" tank (what do I know) to get back into the hobby - Juwel can be trusted to not make too many mistakes (so I thought). I didn't realise that Juwel no longer (if ever) make Marine tanks - their market is for Tropical (like RS is for Marine). This makes for an "interesting" chat when I called them. It seems that their UK Wholesaler bought the existing Stock and "converted" the Tropical Kits by exchanging the two existing Tropical bulbs for Marine ones - even the labelling looks "authentic" and fooled me for a few months... So Juwel don't have Marine Tanks in their catalogue (portfolio), don't sell a Marine version of their LED light, but do have LED replacement bulbs... They also don't discuss what they don't have to sell, but seem to be aware of the "arrangement". I guess you could say buyer, beware! After only a short time (the tank is barely through the setup cycle) I'm trying to put "right" some issues and it is either "fix up" what I have or "start over" and currently, that is what I have decided to do. A new Tank is ordered, but the questions remain, did I get the size (and version right)... Whilst there are other choices like Waterbox or D&D Solutions, I don't want to add these into the "running", just to keep it "simple".
My interest is to have a Mixed Reef tank, I have a Percula Clown, a Cleaner Shrimp and very small Cleaner Crew (the shrimp, two snails and two Hermit crabs). I also have a Goby and a Blenny that are in the QT and not quite ready for the DT. The Clown went through a QT tank I setup in parallel for just over a month before being set free in the DT. The tank is AIO, but I use a Tunze Protein Skimmer and a Tunze ATO. There is also a Sicce PowerHead for additional flow. Previously, I had Marine (and Tropical and later Cold Water fish) and used an external Cannister Filter and reverse flow underground filters - times change.
The three issues I have are:
1. Lighting is inadequate and options to upgrade it are limited (or too expensive);
2. Not having a Sump is OK and the Juwel Filter works well enough but each additional piece of Equipment is (inevitably) on display;
3. Tank is bigger than I previously had - it is 180 litres, but small enough to be a bit limiting for Fish e.g. no Tangs etc.
1. The Tank has some green algae starting to appear in just a few places on my two main rock arrangements. These are Life rocks (natural but not seen the ocean for thousands of years). I followed the Red Sea’s Reef Mature Pro Recipe and now have NoPoX and also the powdered versions of Foundation supplements. At the moment it's only the small daily addition of addition of NoPoX and Foundation B (Alk). I thought the curved Vision was good "thing" but it is now starting to irritate my (tired old) eyes - so perhaps rectangle/boring is best.
I did some experiments with my DT and QT and tried to measure the light differences - my DT is visually much dimmer than the QT and using a phone in a plastic bag, I estimated the light in the lower parts as being about 45-50 PAR in the DT - not too much. I never intended to keep SPS, but even so, it is (potentially) not so great, even for Softies or LPS. The quality of light is also perhaps not the best "mix" and towards the back of the Tank there is a blue (almost Disco like) colour cast - if you look for it. Whilst extra Lights can be bought, the idea of adding £ 600 - £ 800 of additional lighting to a £ 400 Aquarium Tank setup doesn't seem right, but YMMV.
2. I thought not having a Sump was OK, but inevitably adding any new equipment would make the tank look a bit "busy". The tank is (probably) plate glass so it could be drilled for connecting a Sump. The Manufacturer suggests it may be toughened but the Wholesaler that it's not (easily checked with light from a phone and polarising sunglasses). The Juwel cabinet has three sections (doors) and I could remove the two internal dividers, put additional bracking at the top (2" x 4") supported up the sides and add a Sump. Whilst it "could" be done, it doesn't seem right. Conditions in the Juwel are fine and Nitrate is about 2 ppm with other conditions almost exactly matching the RS Recipe I'm following. The Cabinet has a good build quality, the Tank has (perhaps) a not very well finished LH silicone sealing - I'm discussing with my Dealer and the Wholesaler to see if it can be fixed/replaced. When you (inevitably) look at other "stuff", the existing stuff can look a bit too "entry level"...
3. I put the Tank in the Dining Room - it is to the right of the window and 90cm wide Tanks looks OK whereas a 120cm wide Tank would start to interfere with the window and curtains (on the long wall). If getting a bigger tank, I could accommodate a 120cm tank on the next wall. So, my next big idea, was rearranging the Sitting Room and considering how big a Tank would look OK. Physically, I have one side that has a central fireplace and (now) free space on the LH side where I could put a OTT3m tank... but, I made a scale drawing using a simple CAD program and can swap in 120cm, 150cm or 180cm Tanks to see how they might "look". The conclusion I reached is that the 120cm Tank looks a bit small (upgrade the "upgrade" before too long?), 150cm OK and 180cm, perhaps too big - for the space. 150cm is about 10cm longer than a TV stand on the RH side - so the two are "balanced" or a 120cm is about 20cm shorter - but in "real life" both would look about the same. I'm aiming to not have too much of an in-balance e.g. a 200cm tank vs 140cm unit - if that makes sense.
Long story short, I started to look at the Red Sea 525 Tank, decided that the extra width/height of the 625 would be acceptable (and welcome) but a bigger Tank like the 750 would be just too overpowering for the available space. Getting "approval" for putting a Tank in the Sitting Room was much easier than I imagined. The "approval" was an easy "sell" because the existing DT limits fish choice for the "Approver", but YMMV.
My LFS has Red Sea Tanks and compared to my Juwel Vision (curved front) they do look good. For the size I'm opting for there are two models:
a. Red Sea Reefer XXL 625
b. Red Sea Reefer 625 G2
Although the XXL 625 is no longer in the RS range it is still available. I watched all the RS videos and whilst their claims for the new Tank look good, there does seem to be a big "overhang/overlap" between what they are touting as "new" and what is already in their previous version. Would it be mistake to buy the XXL 625 now that there is a 625 G2?
The 625 G2 has twin output nozzles - whereas the XXL 625 looks to only have a movable single output. Considering that RS tout a high Return {ump throughput, they should really have provided a Twin Nozzle and they do have a Y shaped Add-On for £8 that directs the flow more to the sides than to the front (or rearranged) more to the side. The XXL 625 has the black coloured Valve that is now "red" on the new one. I don't know how much this has changed (the red pipes on the G2 look nice - but to me also a bit garish, too). Currently, the XXL 625 is still available, so this was my preferred choice (overall about £ 550 cheaper). RS prices seem to be "fixed" here in the UK, but I have found a Dealer to give 10% off all additional equipment - costs quickly double/tripple up - LOL! Whilst, I have some regrets about the journey into Juwel, that's OK.
So, I'm sitting on my hands, awaiting the kit to be ordered next week and wondering if I made the right choice. If I procrastinated, the option to get the XXL 625 would inevitably be removed. That's either a good or bad thing... to keep things "simple" I have specc'ed a RS Skimmer, Fleece Roller, Wavemakers and Doser. There are probably other valid choices - I just wanted to keep it "simple". I do like the RS Recipes and RS Marketing aside, quite like their Tanks, too.
Simon
1. We don't keep Fish - we keep (or maintain) water...
2. It is not IF you will upgrade, but WHEN you will (inevitably) upsize (or change) your Tank.
On the second point, I have a Juwel Vision 180 LED Marine Aquarium. It is really a Juwel Tropical Tank with the two LED lights exchanged for a Blue and Marine versions (19W + 19W). I previously kept Marine Fish about 35 years ago, and remembering that Juwel made AIO tanks, I thought it would make a "good" tank (what do I know) to get back into the hobby - Juwel can be trusted to not make too many mistakes (so I thought). I didn't realise that Juwel no longer (if ever) make Marine tanks - their market is for Tropical (like RS is for Marine). This makes for an "interesting" chat when I called them. It seems that their UK Wholesaler bought the existing Stock and "converted" the Tropical Kits by exchanging the two existing Tropical bulbs for Marine ones - even the labelling looks "authentic" and fooled me for a few months... So Juwel don't have Marine Tanks in their catalogue (portfolio), don't sell a Marine version of their LED light, but do have LED replacement bulbs... They also don't discuss what they don't have to sell, but seem to be aware of the "arrangement". I guess you could say buyer, beware! After only a short time (the tank is barely through the setup cycle) I'm trying to put "right" some issues and it is either "fix up" what I have or "start over" and currently, that is what I have decided to do. A new Tank is ordered, but the questions remain, did I get the size (and version right)... Whilst there are other choices like Waterbox or D&D Solutions, I don't want to add these into the "running", just to keep it "simple".
My interest is to have a Mixed Reef tank, I have a Percula Clown, a Cleaner Shrimp and very small Cleaner Crew (the shrimp, two snails and two Hermit crabs). I also have a Goby and a Blenny that are in the QT and not quite ready for the DT. The Clown went through a QT tank I setup in parallel for just over a month before being set free in the DT. The tank is AIO, but I use a Tunze Protein Skimmer and a Tunze ATO. There is also a Sicce PowerHead for additional flow. Previously, I had Marine (and Tropical and later Cold Water fish) and used an external Cannister Filter and reverse flow underground filters - times change.
The three issues I have are:
1. Lighting is inadequate and options to upgrade it are limited (or too expensive);
2. Not having a Sump is OK and the Juwel Filter works well enough but each additional piece of Equipment is (inevitably) on display;
3. Tank is bigger than I previously had - it is 180 litres, but small enough to be a bit limiting for Fish e.g. no Tangs etc.
1. The Tank has some green algae starting to appear in just a few places on my two main rock arrangements. These are Life rocks (natural but not seen the ocean for thousands of years). I followed the Red Sea’s Reef Mature Pro Recipe and now have NoPoX and also the powdered versions of Foundation supplements. At the moment it's only the small daily addition of addition of NoPoX and Foundation B (Alk). I thought the curved Vision was good "thing" but it is now starting to irritate my (tired old) eyes - so perhaps rectangle/boring is best.
I did some experiments with my DT and QT and tried to measure the light differences - my DT is visually much dimmer than the QT and using a phone in a plastic bag, I estimated the light in the lower parts as being about 45-50 PAR in the DT - not too much. I never intended to keep SPS, but even so, it is (potentially) not so great, even for Softies or LPS. The quality of light is also perhaps not the best "mix" and towards the back of the Tank there is a blue (almost Disco like) colour cast - if you look for it. Whilst extra Lights can be bought, the idea of adding £ 600 - £ 800 of additional lighting to a £ 400 Aquarium Tank setup doesn't seem right, but YMMV.
2. I thought not having a Sump was OK, but inevitably adding any new equipment would make the tank look a bit "busy". The tank is (probably) plate glass so it could be drilled for connecting a Sump. The Manufacturer suggests it may be toughened but the Wholesaler that it's not (easily checked with light from a phone and polarising sunglasses). The Juwel cabinet has three sections (doors) and I could remove the two internal dividers, put additional bracking at the top (2" x 4") supported up the sides and add a Sump. Whilst it "could" be done, it doesn't seem right. Conditions in the Juwel are fine and Nitrate is about 2 ppm with other conditions almost exactly matching the RS Recipe I'm following. The Cabinet has a good build quality, the Tank has (perhaps) a not very well finished LH silicone sealing - I'm discussing with my Dealer and the Wholesaler to see if it can be fixed/replaced. When you (inevitably) look at other "stuff", the existing stuff can look a bit too "entry level"...
3. I put the Tank in the Dining Room - it is to the right of the window and 90cm wide Tanks looks OK whereas a 120cm wide Tank would start to interfere with the window and curtains (on the long wall). If getting a bigger tank, I could accommodate a 120cm tank on the next wall. So, my next big idea, was rearranging the Sitting Room and considering how big a Tank would look OK. Physically, I have one side that has a central fireplace and (now) free space on the LH side where I could put a OTT3m tank... but, I made a scale drawing using a simple CAD program and can swap in 120cm, 150cm or 180cm Tanks to see how they might "look". The conclusion I reached is that the 120cm Tank looks a bit small (upgrade the "upgrade" before too long?), 150cm OK and 180cm, perhaps too big - for the space. 150cm is about 10cm longer than a TV stand on the RH side - so the two are "balanced" or a 120cm is about 20cm shorter - but in "real life" both would look about the same. I'm aiming to not have too much of an in-balance e.g. a 200cm tank vs 140cm unit - if that makes sense.
Long story short, I started to look at the Red Sea 525 Tank, decided that the extra width/height of the 625 would be acceptable (and welcome) but a bigger Tank like the 750 would be just too overpowering for the available space. Getting "approval" for putting a Tank in the Sitting Room was much easier than I imagined. The "approval" was an easy "sell" because the existing DT limits fish choice for the "Approver", but YMMV.
My LFS has Red Sea Tanks and compared to my Juwel Vision (curved front) they do look good. For the size I'm opting for there are two models:
a. Red Sea Reefer XXL 625
b. Red Sea Reefer 625 G2
Although the XXL 625 is no longer in the RS range it is still available. I watched all the RS videos and whilst their claims for the new Tank look good, there does seem to be a big "overhang/overlap" between what they are touting as "new" and what is already in their previous version. Would it be mistake to buy the XXL 625 now that there is a 625 G2?
The 625 G2 has twin output nozzles - whereas the XXL 625 looks to only have a movable single output. Considering that RS tout a high Return {ump throughput, they should really have provided a Twin Nozzle and they do have a Y shaped Add-On for £8 that directs the flow more to the sides than to the front (or rearranged) more to the side. The XXL 625 has the black coloured Valve that is now "red" on the new one. I don't know how much this has changed (the red pipes on the G2 look nice - but to me also a bit garish, too). Currently, the XXL 625 is still available, so this was my preferred choice (overall about £ 550 cheaper). RS prices seem to be "fixed" here in the UK, but I have found a Dealer to give 10% off all additional equipment - costs quickly double/tripple up - LOL! Whilst, I have some regrets about the journey into Juwel, that's OK.
So, I'm sitting on my hands, awaiting the kit to be ordered next week and wondering if I made the right choice. If I procrastinated, the option to get the XXL 625 would inevitably be removed. That's either a good or bad thing... to keep things "simple" I have specc'ed a RS Skimmer, Fleece Roller, Wavemakers and Doser. There are probably other valid choices - I just wanted to keep it "simple". I do like the RS Recipes and RS Marketing aside, quite like their Tanks, too.
Simon
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