URGENT: Lost 6 fish in 40 hours. I'm desperate.

[miyags]

Also, i'm planning to buy all the others fishes that I want I take advantage of QT all of them at once. What you about this idea?

Not a good idea.You already have to many fish in those small QT.Your going to have a hard time keeping them alive for 76 day fallow period as is.Wheres your filter for the 10 gallon?A simple foam filter works well in QT.

 

[johnbr]

So no meds in the QT right now, and he isn't eating? Do you know what food he was eating before moving him to the QT?

I've never had a CBB but I know @HotRocks has put at least a few through QT. Maybe he or some of the others following your thread can make a suggestion. The only thing that immediately comes to mind is the lack of cover so the fish may not be comfortable/confident enough to eat. I haven't formed an opinion on it yet, but I've seen some QT systems with plastic plants made for aquariums to help break up sight lines. I'm not sure if it helps or not.

By the way can I use those fake plants in a QT tank? I also have plenty of purple man made rock as left over that never touched my DT. Could you them to since I can build up bacteria.

So far I'm not medicating and I'm just keeping my eye on them. Water quality improved 100% since yesterday after adding prime and a bottle of bio-spira. Fish seem to be more calm.

My copperband was eating frozen little neck clams. I like to buy them fresh and then froze them. Reason why I do that is so I can get the full shell (not just half of it) and open just enough for the CB to stick his tiny mouth inside. He loved to do that.

Now I keep asking myself. Should I put the copperband back in DT and take my chances since the CB never showed any signs of being sick?

 

[johnbr]

Not a good idea.You already have to many fish in those small QT.Your going to have a hard time keeping them alive for 76 day fallow period as is.Wheres your filter for the 10 gallon?A simple foam filter works well in QT.

As of right now I'm not using the 10 gallon. I'm gonna watch them closely for the next upcoming days and if needed will rehome the small species to the 10 gallon.

 

[Victoria M]

you did a great job getting the hospital tank set up and following the expert advise you have received from so many folks, especially brew. Please keep us posted.

 

[johnbr]

you did a great job getting the hospital tank set up and following the expert advise you have received from so many folks, especially brew. Please keep us posted.

Kudos to all of them.

I have to honest that I was blown away by how helpful people are here in the Forum. I wish I could hug each and one of you in person.

I don't have words to express how confident I got after your comments.

Thanks to all of you.

 

[Victoria M]

By the way can I use those fake plants in a QT tank? I also have plenty of purple man made rock as left over that never touched my DT. Could you them to since I can build up bacteria.

So far I'm not medicating and I'm just keeping my eye on them. Water quality improved 100% since yesterday after adding prime and a bottle of bio-spira. Fish seem to be more calm.

My copperband was eating frozen little neck clams. I like to buy them fresh and then froze them. Reason why I do that is so I can get the full shell (not just half of it) and open just enough for the CB to stick his tiny mouth inside. He loved to do that.

Now I keep asking myself. Should I put the copperband back in DT and take my chances since the CB never showed any signs of being sick?

The disease is in the tank and you need to leave the tank fishless to let the disease die. Without a host the parasite will die. This is called a fallow period.
I thought you were treating the tank with paraguard?
The fish need to be medicated to kill the parasites you can not see.
Fish can have parasites and appear healthy. These are carriers. Then when a stressful event in the tank happens (such a simple shift in the fish dominance hierarchy ) the parasite is able to overcome the fishes immune system and muliply into numbers the fish can not fight off, and they spread to other fish. Even fish with a healthy immune system can be overcome by the sheer number of parasites flooding the aquarium water.

 

[Victoria M]

have you been reading here? very informative.
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/

 

[Brew12]

By the way can I use those fake plants in a QT tank? I also have plenty of purple man made rock as left over that never touched my DT. Could you them to since I can build up bacteria.

So far I'm not medicating and I'm just keeping my eye on them. Water quality improved 100% since yesterday after adding prime and a bottle of bio-spira. Fish seem to be more calm.

My copperband was eating frozen little neck clams. I like to buy them fresh and then froze them. Reason why I do that is so I can get the full shell (not just half of it) and open just enough for the CB to stick his tiny mouth inside. He loved to do that.

Now I keep asking myself. Should I put the copperband back in DT and take my chances since the CB never showed any signs of being sick?

I would not put the Copperband back in the DT. The Copperband would act as a host and keep the Brook in your tank alive even if it doesn't show symptoms. I do like the idea of adding the dry rock to the QT since it is clean. In fact, this is a very good idea imo. And yes, you can use fake plants in a QT as long as they are salt water safe. Most should be. Since you aren't treating with meds you want your QT to be set up like a DT if possible. Just make sure you keep it easy to modify in the event you need to start using meds.

Hopefully the CBB will start eating those clams soon!

 

[JumboShrimp]

If he can’t last 30 days in copper (due to an all-out hunger strike), you can take him out after 15 days and put him into a 2nd fresh/uncontaminated QT and observe him for about 2 weeks. Assuming he can make 15 days without eating— other people may know better than me.

 

[Victoria M]

why no medications for the remaining fish? what is the rational?

 

[Brew12]

why no medications for the remaining fish? what is the rational?

His fish had Brook. They were dipped after capture and before going into the QT. With Brook cleared via dips and no visible or behavioral symptoms of other diseases not treating should help the fish regain strength.

 

[Victoria M]

oh, ok. I thought brook OR velvet was the thought. I did not realise you agreed it looked like it was brooke. I was not convinced of brooke and would treat for velvet too. The two week treatment, I mean. BUT that is me. I would treat while I had them all out of the tank. and feed them well! Not to confuse you, john or make you doubt yourself. You see the fish. trust your gut. pictures don't always show what your eye sees. I think at different stages of infection parasitic infections, especially in hobbyist photos, look a lot alike due to the fish sliming up and sloughing the mucous layer. I just had to share my rational.

 

[johnbr]

I would not put the Copperband back in the DT. The Copperband would act as a host and keep the Brook in your tank alive even if it doesn't show symptoms. I do like the idea of adding the dry rock to the QT since it is clean. In fact, this is a very good idea imo. And yes, you can use fake plants in a QT as long as they are salt water safe. Most should be. Since you aren't treating with meds you want your QT to be set up like a DT if possible. Just make sure you keep it easy to modify in the event you need to start using meds.

Hopefully the CBB will start eating those clams soon!

Will do that for sure. He’s actually eating now. Just saw him picking at a clam.

His fish had Brook. They were dipped after capture and before going into the QT. With Brook cleared via dips and no visible or behavioral symptoms of other diseases not treating should help the fish regain strength.

Exactly.

I do have other medications but since there was no signs of any brook or velvet after 2 high concentrated baths that took 90 minute each. I’m just dosing daily the regular amount of Paraguard in the QT every 2 days and feeding the fish really heavy.

I don’t see the need of starting copper just to stress the fish for something that they don’t even have.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Brew12]

oh, ok. I thought brook OR velvet was the thought. I did not realise you agreed it looked like it was brooke. I was not convinced of brooke and would treat for velvet too. The two week treatment, I mean. BUT that is me. I would treat while I had them all out of the tank. and feed them well! Not to confuse you, john or make you doubt yourself. You see the fish. trust your gut. pictures don't always show what your eye sees. I think at different stages of infection parasitic infections, especially in hobbyist photos, look a lot alike due to the fish sliming up and sloughing the mucous layer. I just had to share my rational.

There was a lack of typical behavioral symptoms for velvet and the visual cues lined up with Brook. He also had a confirmed case of Brook last year and never took the tank fallow. I can't say that his tank doesn't have Velvet in it, but it does not appear to be the main issue. In these cases I feel it is a balancing act. The more you try to treat parasites the more you weaken the fish. The weaker the fish, the more likely they are to have bacterial/viral issues. Eating may also become a problem. If you don't know why they are dying, I agree that full on velvet treatment would have been called for because that would override the other concerns.

I don’t see the need of starting copper just to stress the fish for something that they don’t even have.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

After all the work you have done, I would treat them in copper starting 13 days prior to moving them back into the DT. With your 42 day fallow period and the shortened copper treatment with a transfer out of the QT it eliminates the possibility of having Velvet in your system and makes Ich highly unlikely.

 

[Victoria M]

That is a sound plan. Fingers crossed for you. It is so wonderful to see a hobbyist reaching out for help actually following the advise given. Just curious John, how was the previous brooke infection confirmed?

 

[johnbr]

oh, ok. I thought brook OR velvet was the thought. I did not realise you agreed it looked like it was brooke. I was not convinced of brooke and would treat for velvet too. The two week treatment, I mean. BUT that is me. I would treat while I had them all out of the tank. and feed them well! Not to confuse you, john or make you doubt yourself. You see the fish. trust your gut. pictures don't always show what your eye sees. I think at different stages of infection parasitic infections, especially in hobbyist photos, look a lot alike due to the fish sliming up and sloughing the mucous layer. I just had to share my rational.

Thanks a lot for your inputs. I’ll definitely keep them on treatment for these 40 days.

 

[johnbr]

There was a lack of typical behavioral symptoms for velvet and the visual cues lined up with Brook. He also had a confirmed case of Brook last year and never took the tank fallow. I can't say that his tank doesn't have Velvet in it, but it does not appear to be the main issue. In these cases I feel it is a balancing act. The more you try to treat parasites the more you weaken the fish. The weaker the fish, the more likely they are to have bacterial/viral issues. Eating may also become a problem. If you don't know why they are dying, I agree that full on velvet treatment would have been called for because that would override the other concerns.


After all the work you have done, I would treat them in copper starting 13 days prior to moving them back into the DT. With your 42 day fallow period and the shortened copper treatment with a transfer out of the QT it eliminates the possibility of having Velvet in your system and makes Ich highly unlikely.

Thanks a lot @Brew12 ill do that.

That is a sound plan. Fingers crossed for you. It is so wonderful to see a hobbyist reaching out for help actually following the advise given. Just curious John, how was the previous brooke infection confirmed?

Well about a year and half ago I got my first tank a nuvo 30 gallon. Put 2 clowns and one day they got this white slime coat. Everyone said was brook. I took them out of the tank and started a QT just with copper. I didn’t know I was doing the wrong treatment. I was new to the hobby. One of them died and the other one was 100% fine so I decided 2 weeks after to put him back in the DT. After that got another clown that I didn’t QT and both never showed any signs of brook since then. I decided to get a red sea 525xl started from zero and toss it both clowns in the system. One of them died jumping. Got another one and again never QT and 2 skunk clowns. 1 month later after the new have been setup for almost 8 months BANG the disease wiped out half of my fish in 40 hours.

Lesson learned? 200%

I think that either the old fish was strong enough but still carrying it or those last 3 were the issue. I don’t know. Speaking yesterday with the manager for live stock at World Wide Corlas he said that he’s almost with raised tank clowns due to high dying rates. These fish since they are treated since the born they never have the chance to develop properly a immune system to face the world out there. Is like raisin a child in a bubble and increase the chances of getting a flu 100000x easier then a kid which had his childhood playing outside. It’s all about a strong immune system.

 

[Victoria M]

So you are learning from the school of hard knocks too. Just like most of us. I agree that it is all about the immune system but I will add that it is all about avoiding exposure to virulent pathogens too. It is the very nature of this hobby to be a ripe environment for spreading disease. International travel, poor nutrition, poor environment, exposure to different parasites and pathogens than one is used to (and have some natural immediate immune response to), and very close quarters. If this were happening to people the CDC would be involved. lol

 

[rkpetersen]

As far as feeding your CBB, if it stops eating again or doesn't seem to be eating enough, you could try some live brine shrimp if any nearby LFS carries it.

 

[rkpetersen]

It is the very nature of this hobby to be a ripe environment for spreading disease. International travel, poor nutrition, poor environment, exposure to different parasites and pathogens than one is used to (and have some natural immediate immune response to), and very close quarters. If this were happening to people the CDC would be involved. lol

We do have these conditions already with international air travel for business and pleasure. Humans are extraordinarily lucky that no pathogen has fully taken advantage of how aggressively we intermingle on a global scale. Imagine if we could stay asymptomatic carriers of something for days or weeks, infecting other asymptomatic carriers along the way, only to later break out in disease which quickly kills us and everyone around us. The first worldwide human pandemic of the new millennium with real bite will be truly something to see; and I guess you're right, the CDC will definitely be involved at that point!