Uronema Chromis QT Protocol

djkms

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Hello,

Been in and out of the hobby for 25+ years, recently coming back since 2013ish. Doing a bit of research I guess Uronema is a big issue these days, never even heard of it until now. Always been Copper + Prazi for QT.

Anyhow, I have a regal tang coming in today which I will QT and is being introduced into 1.018sg water with 1ppm Copper Power, following humblefish's QT protocol. 2 days later I have 9 Black Axil Chromis coming in from QM/LA. I just want to make sure I have the protocol right when they get here:
Temp acclimate - Ruby Reef Rally dip for 90 minutes - transfer to QT and continue Humble Fish Protocol?

Problem is my QT water already has copper in it for the Regal Tang. Will I be OK to mix a Fresh batch of water and temp/salinity adjust for the Rally dip and transfer after dip to QT tank? Or am I OK taking the QT water out for the Rally dip even though it has copper in it? Best method here? Obviously the Regal and Chromis will be QT'd together and dont plan on raising Copper until all fish in the QT 940 gallon breeder).

Any advise appreciated for success, Thanks!

Kris
 
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Jay Hemdal

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A couple of observations: Uronema thrives in low salinity, and 1.018 is too high to give you any protection against Cryptocaryon, so you should run the QT at 1.021. Also, isn’t the standard dose for Copper Power 2.0 ppm? Running it at half strength won’t give you any protection at all. Since Uronema in Chromis gets started intra-cellularly, the Rally dip won’t help with that.
I’m really down on green chromis at the moment- seems everyone is losing them. I suspect that COVID has extended the supply chain and they just can’t handle it. Do you know where the black axil chromis were collected?
Jay
 
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djkms

djkms

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Hey Jay,

Thanks for the response. Regarding the salinity, I plan to slowly raise it to 1.025 over the course of the quarantine to match my display tank water. The only reason I have it at 1.018 is to match QM's salinity when the fish arrive. I actually just received my Tang and the water is 1.021 from QM so it is raised to 1.021.

Regarding the copper, humblefish suggests to start at 1ppm and raise it over a course of days which was the plan.

No clue where they were collected as the information is not available on LA's site. I could email them but they are ordered at this point so not sure if anything can be done...

Back to my question at hand, should I whip up a new batch of water for the dip or am I OK using the copper water currently in QT? Never used Rally's before and I cant seem to find an answer, when I google it just says Rally's doenst use copper which doesn't help me much.
 

Tired

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Sounds like a good plan. One thing to add: get some clove oil. If they do turn out to have uronema, they should really be euthanized, since IIRC it's untreatable. And a disease that kills the way it does, can be reasonably assumed to cause severe pain.

Clove oil is good for fish euthanasia, I've used it before. You put the fish to be euthanized in a relatively small container (gallon or so) with hiding places, to start with. Get some tank water in a bottle, put a couple drops of clove oil in the bottle, and shake it violently to mix the oil in. Slowly add the oil-water, a bit at a time, and you should see the fish start to act sluggish. Eventually, they'll be laying on the bottom, unresponsive. Once they're unresponsive, add a bunch of clove oil water, and leave them in that mixture for at least a few hours. Preferably overnight.

Clove oil is a sedative. It should be added slowly because there's anecdotal evidence of fish showing some alarm when it's added all at once, probably from the strong smell, but it's approved as a humane method by several different experts. The one downside of this euthanasia method is that fish can appear dead but still revive if put in clean water, which is why you should leave them in the euthanasia mixture for long enough to be sure they've fully stopped breathing. There are stronger agents you can get for a similar method, but clove oil is easy to get and handle, and works. IMO, everyone who keeps fish should have clove oil on hand, in case it's needed.
 
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djkms

djkms

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Since Uronema in Chromis gets started intra-cellularly, the Rally dip won’t help with that.
Sorry Jay, just saw this. Not sure I fully understand what it means but sounds like you are saying not to even bother with the Rally Dip? The metro with the copper should be enough then?

Kind of going off what Humble wrote here:

* Treatment of choice is a 45 minute formalin bath (e.g. Quick Cure), followed by transfer into a new/sterile QT.
* Once in QT, it is very important to do followup treatment to ensure all of the parasites have been eliminated. This can be accomplished by dosing and food soaking metronidazole (e.g. Seachem Metroplex) for 10-14 days.

Since I have Rally on the way and no formalin getting here on time thats what I opted for. I thought I read somewhere that Humble dips all his Chromis proactively before QT when shipped to him.
 
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Wildreefs

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Metro is a waste of time. Ask a handful of the people who qt for a living and see what they say about uronema, nothing has proven to work.

Also QM sucks. What they were 10 years ago to now is along the same trend as what LA was to when petco bought them.

Seek a place that tranships fish directly, less chain of custody and less time sitting on death row a a wholesaler .
 
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djkms

djkms

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Metro is a waste of time. Ask a handful of the people who qt for a living and see what they say about uronema, nothing has proven to work.

Also QM sucks. What they were 10 years ago to now is along the same trend as what LA was to when petco bought them.

Seek a place that tranships fish directly, less chain of custody and less time sitting on death row a a wholesaler .

So just do the normal Copper+Prazi and pray that they dont come with uronema?

Pretty sad the hear about QM. I actually toured their facility back in 2012 when I worked part time for an aquarium maintenance company in Colorado. Pretty impressive place from what I remember.
 

Wildreefs

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In 2013 the lfs near me ordered exclusively from there, even if it meant more expensive stuff compared to others.

did that for years up until 2013, after that has slowly transitioned to other wholesalers and transhipping . The quality completely fell off a cliff, and suspecting it just being one bad apple, the more I talked with other stores, the timeline and opinions were in line with what he saw.

formalin supposedly works, however there a numerous reports of shorter life spans. Plus that stuff is bad for you to be in with.

I’d stick with at least 2 weeks of consistent 2.0 copper , (after ramp up from 1.0, 14 day timer starts once you got 2.0) and then transfer while in 2.0 to either sterile tank or display (I do display, for if 14 days didn’t work the first time, what tells me the second time is charm, plus, I can’t have 5 different tanks runnning.)

as far as uronema goes, from what I have read, it is in almost every tank a lot like cyano, just waiting for a time to strike. So even if you “cure” the fish and there sterile environment of qt, once it leaves to display my money is on it running into it again.

I stay away from chromis for that reason. Not uncommon to see 20 chromis in a holding tank, with various other fish, and the chromis get the uro, others seem unphased.
 

Wildreefs

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It would certainly be nice to eliminate uro, along with others, I just have a hard time treating something that has proven to be every where at some point, with chemicals with unproven track records. Seachem metroplex for example is one you will people tout, but when it doesn’t work the purity is to blame.

unfortunately I think a lot of people throw the gambit at fish, the entire kitchen sink, have it make it to display and not see signs of uro, and say the treatment worked, all while not knowing if uro was there or ever a problem to begin with .

kinda like me saying here Tale this $100 shot of liquor that stops Lyme disease, yo take it, test negative and attribute the negative test to the liquor, when lymes
May never have been there to begin with
 

piranhaman00

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IMO the best treatment for Uronema is luck. QT them separate and figures cross, use regular qt protocol.
 
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Wildreefs

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Also, do some reading on prazi. I have killed at least two dozen fish within hours of using it . Fish I’ve had for months, suddenly dying. Oxygen was certainly not an issue, I use multiple power heads at the surface, 2 airline, a cupless skimmer and so on.

years ago I used prazi often as a preventative, never an issue. Now I use it and expect at least a 10 percent die off, mostly wrasses and anthias.

people here will tell you it’s gentle, if you speak to the qt companies, they will say otherwise as well. Not sure there’s a good answer for flukes
 

Wildreefs

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IMO the best treatment for Uronema is luck. QT them separate and figures cross, use regular qt protocol.
Bingo. I really think it’s like staph infections. The bacteria is everywhere, waits for an opening or lesion and an unprepared immune system.
 
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djkms

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Wow, seems like the hobby has gone off the rails since 2013 regarding disease and treatments! Thanks for all the info guys. Crazy to hear about Prazi - that was always a solid, safe treatment in times past. I was thinking of dosing it in my DT on rare occasions for preventative measures.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Sorry Jay, just saw this. Not sure I fully understand what it means but sounds like you are saying not to even bother with the Rally Dip? The metro with the copper should be enough then?

Kind of going off what Humble wrote here:

* Treatment of choice is a 45 minute formalin bath (e.g. Quick Cure), followed by transfer into a new/sterile QT.
* Once in QT, it is very important to do followup treatment to ensure all of the parasites have been eliminated. This can be accomplished by dosing and food soaking metronidazole (e.g. Seachem Metroplex) for 10-14 days.

Since I have Rally on the way and no formalin getting here on time thats what I opted for. I thought I read somewhere that Humble dips all his Chromis proactively before QT when shipped to him.
Sorry, I was just saying if you using Rally solely to combat Uronema in chromis, don’t bother, as the infection isn’t external, so a short dip has no benefit. Now that chloroquine is so difficult to get, there really isn’t a good treatment for Uronema....that’s why I’m advocating people avoid green chromis right now. If you can find larger ones, like from Fiji, they are a better bet.
Jay
 

piranhaman00

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Wow, seems like the hobby has gone off the rails since 2013 regarding disease and treatments! Thanks for all the info guys. Crazy to hear about Prazi - that was always a solid, safe treatment in times past. I was thinking of dosing it in my DT on rare occasions for preventative measures.

FWIW I have not heard of the prazi issues myself.
 
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