Valonia, throwing in the towel, time for the nuclear option, but which red button?

[JoJosReef]

Unfortunately, I can't get the upper hand against Valonia in the IM 40g Long AIO. It's an office tank, so every weekend it gains ground and I start the week off worse than the previous one. Unfortunately, it is an exponential gain. My strategy has been manual removal/suctioning and emerald crabs, but the stuff has done the tricky move of embedding themselves in my macroalgae and even within my branching GSP and bare spots of my LPS and SPS, places where emerald crabs can't/won't go and where manual removal is nigh on impossible. Ulva is using the same tactic with the macroalgae. I'm also sick of buying more and more emerald crabs.

I am going to attempt treatment with Algaefix or maybe Reef Flux (Fluconazole). I've done Vibrant before in my first nano, but I don't plan to support that company anymore. Does anyone know if the recommended dose for Algaefix is close to the recommended dose for Vibrant, given that they are the same active ingredients, but the latter doesn't tell you what it is or how much is in it?

I have some concerns and trying to plan this out for minimal fallout.

@Shufflepig @ElementReefer Updates/advice from your battle using Flux?

1. Macroalgae in the tank. I have a lot, and it is a central feature :~( Presumably they will also die. I am thinking of clipping some off and growing them in a 10g tank for the time being until treatment is finished. Does Fluconazole affect macroalgae as much, more or less than Algaefix? Would a lower dose kill the Valonia while the macroalgae survives?

2. If I go Fluconazole/Reef Flux, I understand that the recommended dose for Valonia is 4x. Has anyone tried starting at 1x and ramping up to ensure nothing dies off? If going Algaefix, is there a modification of the recommended dose for Valonia?

3. There are a lot of comments on Amazon about their fish or everything in their tank dying with Algaefix, sometimes claiming due to oxygen depletion. Does anyone know if that is true? Is it the same for Fluconazole? Should I run an air stone at the same time? I have a skimmer I haven't set up yet also.

4. I've also read from people using Vibrant that keeping NO3 and PO4 up with dosing helps the corals during treatment. Any experience with that?

5. Anyone have comments on which one is better? Anyone try using both or using Fluc to start and bit of Algaefix afterwards to annhiliate?

Thanks for your comments!

 

[Eric Cohen]

I make and sell Fluconazole powder called Flux Rx.....I don't think it's going to help with Valonia unless I've missed something on the online boards.

Wish I could help ya, but if you do want to go the fluconazole route, I'd like to offer you a beta testing price and give you 50% off retail. Let me know.

Best regards,

Eric

 

[A Young Reefer]

I make and sell Fluconazole powder called Flux Rx.....I don't think it's going to help with Valonia unless I've missed something on the online boards.

Wish I could help ya, but if you do want to go the fluconazole route, I'd like to offer you a beta testing price and give you 50% off retail. Let me know.

Best regards,

Eric

Wait you are the person behind flux rx? What a small world we live in

 

[Eric Cohen]

Wait you are the person behind flux rx? What a small world we live in

And even a smaller hobby

 

[Dburr1014]

Unfortunately, I can't get the upper hand against Valonia in the IM 40g Long AIO. It's an office tank, so every weekend it gains ground and I start the week off worse than the previous one. Unfortunately, it is an exponential gain. My strategy has been manual removal/suctioning and emerald crabs, but the stuff has done the tricky move of embedding themselves in my macroalgae and even within my branching GSP and bare spots of my LPS and SPS, places where emerald crabs can't/won't go and where manual removal is nigh on impossible. Ulva is using the same tactic with the macroalgae. I'm also sick of buying more and more emerald crabs.

I am going to attempt treatment with Algaefix or maybe Reef Flux (Fluconazole). I've done Vibrant before in my first nano, but I don't plan to support that company anymore. Does anyone know if the recommended dose for Algaefix is close to the recommended dose for Vibrant, given that they are the same active ingredients, but the latter doesn't tell you what it is or how much is in it?

I have some concerns and trying to plan this out for minimal fallout.

@Shufflepig @ElementReefer Updates/advice from your battle using Flux?

1. Macroalgae in the tank. I have a lot, and it is a central feature :~( Presumably they will also die. I am thinking of clipping some off and growing them in a 10g tank for the time being until treatment is finished. Does Fluconazole affect macroalgae as much, more or less than Algaefix? Would a lower dose kill the Valonia while the macroalgae survives?

2. If I go Fluconazole/Reef Flux, I understand that the recommended dose for Valonia is 4x. Has anyone tried starting at 1x and ramping up to ensure nothing dies off? If going Algaefix, is there a modification of the recommended dose for Valonia?

3. There are a lot of comments on Amazon about their fish or everything in their tank dying with Algaefix, sometimes claiming due to oxygen depletion. Does anyone know if that is true? Is it the same for Fluconazole? Should I run an air stone at the same time? I have a skimmer I haven't set up yet also.

4. I've also read from people using Vibrant that keeping NO3 and PO4 up with dosing helps the corals during treatment. Any experience with that?

5. Anyone have comments on which one is better? Anyone try using both or using Fluc to start and bit of Algaefix afterwards to annhiliate?

Thanks for your comments!

Have you tried to pick them out.
Just grab twist, rock and pull.
I found an article also that says popping then does not spread them. I'll have to find it.

Here

How to deal with Valonia Bubble Algae | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Bubble algae is one of the most persistent pests of mature reef aquaria, overgrowing corals, weir combs, and wave pumps if left unchecked. Newbies often report surprise when they first find the small…

reefbuilders.com

 

[52728299]

I've got it in my overflow so I'm following

 

[JoJosReef]

I make and sell Fluconazole powder called Flux Rx.....I don't think it's going to help with Valonia unless I've missed something on the online boards.

Wish I could help ya, but if you do want to go the fluconazole route, I'd like to offer you a beta testing price and give you 50% off retail. Let me know.

Best regards,

Eric

There are a number of threads here that recommend running Fluconazole (either Reef HD version or Blue Life USA version) at 4x the dose recommended for bryopsis. I am hesitant to start at such a high dose and still wondering what to do with all of my macros, but Fluconazole seems like the better option as a first line pharma treatment over Algaefix, which anecdotally seems to have more tank-wide side-effects. Interested.

Also, Eric, I see you are the owner of Tankstop. Nice to meet you. If you see any Ruby Longfin Fairy Wrasses, LET ME KNOW! No one seems to have them although I was told they are common wrasses. Also, a jordani would be awesome, but I worry about the price since I understand they are more rare.

-Joe

 

[JoJosReef]

Have you tried to pick them out.
Just grab twist, rock and pull.
I found an article also that says popping then does not spread them. I'll have to find it.

Here

How to deal with Valonia Bubble Algae | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Bubble algae is one of the most persistent pests of mature reef aquaria, overgrowing corals, weir combs, and wave pumps if left unchecked. Newbies often report surprise when they first find the small…

reefbuilders.com

Yes, I've been battling them for over a year. I've got all sorts of tools for getting under them and pushing/dislodging them and then sucking them up. It's been a losing battle, unfortunately. I try to make sure there is not even any bubble tissue remaining if one does pop.

I can leave on Friday with almost no visible bubbles and come back on Monday with 20-50 bubbles. If it's a heavy workload day and I can't get to them till Tuesday, then we're talking way more.

Unfortunately, some I can't even get because of where they are located. And when they attach to the stems of Botrycladia, for example, they become very hard to remove and I often have to sacrifice an entire stalk if it's a hopeless case.

The gulf live rock I have in my system and the old school Marshal Islands/Fiji reef rocks have done a great job holding other nuisance algae at bay, but Valonia just ignores all of that coraline and other good reef stuff and sits where it wants to.

 

[Eric Cohen]

There are a number of threads here that recommend running Fluconazole (either Reef HD version or Blue Life USA version) at 4x the dose recommended for bryopsis. I am hesitant to start at such a high dose and still wondering what to do with all of my macros, but Fluconazole seems like the better option as a first line pharma treatment over Algaefix, which anecdotally seems to have more tank-wide side-effects. Interested.

Also, Eric, I see you are the owner of Tankstop. Nice to meet you. If you see any Ruby Longfin Fairy Wrasses, LET ME KNOW! No one seems to have them although I was told they are common wrasses. Also, a jordani would be awesome, but I worry about the price since I understand they are more rare.

-Joe

Thanks. Good to meet you too. No chance on a legal Jordani but maybe the Ruby. Keep your eyes on the site. You have good taste!

 

[52728299]

So your emerald crabs haven't helped? I added 4 to my 100g a couple months ago and while I have bubbles in my overflow I don't see any in dt

 

[Derrick0580]

Manual removal, emeralds, fox face are the top 3 that came to mind. Maybe remove what comes off easy, scrub the rest as best you can to pop the bubbles and try flux rx to see if it attacks it once the bubble is popped….

 

[vtecintegra]

I had a small form bubble algae that spread like a mat throughout my tank. No way to scrape it off. I went with algae fix marine. I started at 1/2 dose for a few doses and watched for any negative reaction. Not seeing any, I jumped to a full dose and kept at it for about three weeks. I didn't think it was working, but at around week four, the stuff started to disappear and flake off the rock using a turkey baster. LPS tank.

 

[X-37B]

I just used Algaefix in my 45 and 20g. 1ml per 10g's every 3 days for 27 days total.
I removed as much bubble algae as I could, also some macro in the sump.

This was used to kill red rurf algae that had covered most rocks and corraline.

I lost a halequin but it may not have been the AF as all the peppermint shrimp are alive.

Results:
No bubble algae is seen.
95% of the red turf is gone.
I just started treatment on my 80g/30g and the red turf is going away slowly. Its only been a week.

All emerald crabs are alive too.

It had no visual effect on any corals. I ran my skimmer and carbon during treatment.

Stayed with current 10% a month WC and did none following treatment.

Anyway thats my recent and current experience with AF.

 

[X-37B]

I had a small form bubble algae that spread like a mat throughout my tank. No way to scrape it off. I went with algae fix marine. I started at 1/2 dose for a few doses and watched for any negative reaction. Not seeing any, I jumped to a full dose and kept at it for about three weeks. I didn't think it was working, but at around week four, the stuff started to disappear and flake off the rock using a turkey baster. LPS tank.

Just a note: buy the refular AF its the same as the Marine and a few bucks cheaper, lol.

 

[JoJosReef]

So your emerald crabs haven't helped? I added 4 to my 100g a couple months ago and while I have bubbles in my overflow I don't see any in dt

I probably order emeralds from ReefCleaners (and the odd one from ASD along with coral) every quarter. They do a great job when there's a lot of bubble algae. Then they stop and start eating coral (then donated to someone else's sump), die or best case, eat detritus. I have one left that's been eating leftovers and so far leaving the corals alone. But it completely ignores all the bubble algae on the rise despite being right there in plain view.

At this point, I almost feel it's unethical for me to keep going with emeralds.

 

[JoJosReef]

Manual removal, emeralds, fox face are the top 3 that came to mind. Maybe remove what comes off easy, scrub the rest as best you can to pop the bubbles and try flux rx to see if it attacks it once the bubble is popped….

Wish I had a big enough tank for a foxface. I am thinking of trying Eric's (see post above) Flux Rx, manually knocking down as much as possible as you say.

Once the course is done, I will probably try to run some AlgaeFix, aiming at eradication. I have bubbles in my home nano that do not reproduce like these do. Quite curious the difference between the two tanks.

 

[JoJosReef]

I had a small form bubble algae that spread like a mat throughout my tank. No way to scrape it off. I went with algae fix marine. I started at 1/2 dose for a few doses and watched for any negative reaction. Not seeing any, I jumped to a full dose and kept at it for about three weeks. I didn't think it was working, but at around week four, the stuff started to disappear and flake off the rock using a turkey baster. LPS tank.

Mine in this tank spread very quickly, but interestingly I have Valonia in my home nano that barely reproduces (knock on wood).

I just used Algaefix in my 45 and 20g. 1ml per 10g's every 3 days for 27 days total.
I removed as much bubble algae as I could, also some macro in the sump.

This was used to kill red rurf algae that had covered most rocks and corraline.

I lost a halequin but it may not have been the AF as all the peppermint shrimp are alive.

Results:
No bubble algae is seen.
95% of the red turf is gone.
I just started treatment on my 80g/30g and the red turf is going away slowly. Its only been a week.

All emerald crabs are alive too.

It had no visual effect on any corals. I ran my skimmer and carbon during treatment.

Stayed with current 10% a month WC and did none following treatment.

Anyway thats my recent and current experience with AF.

What happened with your sump macros? Did you remove them or did they stay and survive?

Good comments. I am thinking of a 2-stage approach. Fluc first, followed by Fix. Or flipped. Aim is eradication. Thanks!

 

[X-37B]

Mine in this tank spread very quickly, but interestingly I have Valonia in my home nano that barely reproduces (knock on wood).


What happened with your sump macros? Did you remove them or did they stay and survive?

Good comments. I am thinking of a 2-stage approach. Fluc first, followed by Fix. Or flipped. Aim is eradication. Thanks!

I had a hand full of red and removed it to another system.
I will put it back in a month once the AF is diluted enough. Some was left and did not die.
It worked great on the red turf. It will most likely come back but I will treat it before it gets to established. The stuff has exstensive roots.

Fluc will not touch bubble or red turf. I use it for cyano at 1/2 dose when it is visible.

I tried it at full dose and nothing with bubble or turf.

 

[ElementReefer]

Wow there’s a lot going on in this thread!

First, to answer @JoJosReef questions:

1. I would assume treatment will affect all your macro algae and do everything reasonable to preserve it.

2. I don’t believe 1x is sufficient for Valiona. 4x worked for me. I also don’t think “starting low and going slow” has any advantages. If you want me to elaborate on that, I’m happy to do so in DM or separate post here.

3. Algaefix is a quaternary ammonium compound, it is NOT the same as Reef Flux which is fluconazole, an anti fungal medication that is used all the time in humans and animals.

4. No experience with Vibrant personally. I can tell you that after my fluconazole treatment, nutrients went up.

5. I would use one or the other, I feel like using both is asking for trouble lol.

Second, hi @Eric Cohen , I’ve used Reef flux successfully on Valiona. I’m also an NP and prescribe fluconazole for humans. I’d be happy to answer any questions you have, but I’m not a chemist or a pharmacist, and only a moderately good reefer lol.

 

[JoJosReef]

Wow there’s a lot going on in this thread!

First, to answer @JoJosReef questions:

1. I would assume treatment will affect all your macro algae and do everything reasonable to preserve it.

2. I don’t believe 1x is sufficient for Valiona. 4x worked for me. I also don’t think “starting low and going slow” has any advantages. If you want me to elaborate on that, I’m happy to do so in DM or separate post here.

3. Algaefix is a quaternary ammonium compound, it is NOT the same as Reef Flux which is fluconazole, an anti fungal medication that is used all the time in humans and animals.

4. No experience with Vibrant personally. I can tell you that after my fluconazole treatment, nutrients went up.

5. I would use one or the other, I feel like using both is asking for trouble lol.

Second, hi @Eric Cohen , I’ve used Reef flux successfully on Valiona. I’m also an NP and prescribe fluconazole for humans. I’d be happy to answer any questions you have, but I’m not a chemist or a pharmacist, and only a moderately good reefer lol.

Agreed, thanks! Tentative plan:

Add Flux Rx in a dose escalation over 3 days to achieve 80mg/mL, that way I can monitor the effect on fish/corals/macros/inverts.

I won't have a skimmer running, but I will put a double air stone in the AIO chambers of the tank. No carbon, no phosphate remover, just filter floss pads. I will continue the feeding regimen as normal and will be dosing PNS ProBio every other day.

I will take cuttings of the macros and keep in a separate tank for preservation while the Flux Rx is working in case it kills off my macros.

I will monitor the progress for 3 weeks. If Valonia levels drop by ~50%+ by 3 weeks, I will do a 30% water change and replenish the amount of Flux Rx removed and continue monitoring for the next 3 weeks. If the Valonia levels are not subsiding, then water change without replacement.

Based on this, I plan to do 80mg/gal at ~30 gallons in my IM 40gal AIO == 2400 mg. The 3 week replenishment will be 1/3rd dose == 800mg, but I assume some of the drug will be "spent" during this time, so may add 50% == 1200 mg. Total: 3800mg.

Plan B or continuation of Plan A is API AlgaeFix.