velvet in FOWLR tank, urgent help..

[sensei]

I'm sorry, I don't understand - FOWLR or not, the treatment should be 30 days I think. I've never treated CP that long. Even 30 days is tricky if you don't have a spectrophotometer to measure the remaining CP.

Jay

Let me elaborate on my question :

The fallow period for velvet in fishless tank is 6 weeks. I am not sure if this is because cysts stay in hard surfaces like in ich for up to 6 weeks??

I am treating inside my FOWLR so even after 30 days fish will be in same tank, with same rocks and if there are cyst that may live up to 6 weeks in that tank I would need to keep CP concentración 6 weeks.

I am managing the concentration of CP in tank doing water changes with CP medicated water every 2 days. I already have pure pharmaceutical grade CP and I am adjusting the Water to 15mg/l of CP ( not adjusting to base as I did the first time). The treatment seems to be working, the one that looked preaty bad looks clean now and all fish are eating.

Please tell me what you think

Thanks a lot

 

[jaganshi066]

I will put the skimmer cup for a couple of hours and see it tank clears from the cloudiness. I am sure it is the insoluble fillers of the tablets that I used

I am have a degree in pharmaceutical sciences, I am thinking in using an UV spectrophotometer to analize the water and get the concentration of CP in the tank. I will see if it is feasable for me with the equipments on hand.

I found that article, and read it several times before I dosed..
I realized it was written by you 2 days ago.
excelent write up.

I will keep you posted of any progress

thanks a lot professor!

I have a degree in biochemistry! I don’t think the skimmer will be able to take out all the traces right? Those are dissolved chemicals that are small

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Let me elaborate on my question :

The fallow period for velvet in fishless tank is 6 weeks. I am not sure if this is because cysts stay in hard surfaces like in ich for up to 6 weeks??

I am treating inside my FOWLR so even after 30 days fish will be in same tank, with same rocks and if there are cyst that may live up to 6 weeks in that tank I would need to keep CP concentración 6 weeks.

I am managing the concentration of CP in tank doing water changes with CP medicated water every 2 days. I already have pure pharmaceutical grade CP and I am adjusting the Water to 15mg/l of CP ( not adjusting to base as I did the first time). The treatment seems to be working, the one that looked preaty bad looks clean now and all fish are eating.

Please tell me what you think

Thanks a lot

All fallow periods are calculated with no medication added to the tank, they are a worst case scenario. Proper treatment, either cp or copper drastically reduces the time needed. There is no study saying that Amyloodinium tomonts can remain infective for that long, it is purely extrapolated from the Cryptocaryon study, and even that is suspect. 76 days is always safe to say, so people repeat it. Ed Noga comments that as short as 20 days may be enough, Martin Moe lusts 30 days I think. I opt for 45 days myself.
Jay

 

[sensei]

All fallow periods are calculated with no medication added to the tank, they are a worst case scenario. Proper treatment, either cp or copper drastically reduces the time needed. There is no study saying that Amyloodinium tomonts can remain infective for that long, it is purely extrapolated from the Cryptocaryon study, and even that is suspect. 76 days is always safe to say, so people repeat it. Ed Noga comments that as short as 20 days may be enough, Martin Moe lusts 30 days I think. I opt for 45 days myself.
Jay

Thanks Jay,

so you would believe that 30 days with CP in the FOWLR tank would be enough time for the fish, rocks and tank to be rid of Velvet, correct??

here are 2 more questions:

Velvet do not get attached to rocks and form cysts like ich does?

I had to take out 2 rose bubble tip anenomies in the tank before adding CP. they were attached to rocks so I took the rocks with the anenomies . I have them in a hospital tank but I have a light over the tank so that the anenomies get energy. the fallow period for the anenomies and those 2 rocks would be 45 days??

thanks a lot for your answer

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay,

so you would believe that 30 days with CP in the FOWLR tank would be enough time for the fish, rocks and tank to be rid of Velvet, correct??

here are 2 more questions:

Velvet do not get attached to rocks and form cysts like ich does?

I had to take out 2 rose bubble tip anenomies in the tank before adding CP. they were attached to rocks so I took the rocks with the anenomies . I have them in a hospital tank but I have a light over the tank so that the anenomies get energy. the fallow period for the anenomies and those 2 rocks would be 45 days??

thanks a lot for your answer

So, this is where things get messy; the anemones you removed are the issue. To be extra cautious, they need to be isolated in a fishless system for 75 days. The absolute minimum for them, if warmer than 81 degrees, would be 45 days.
Amyloodinium, velvet does produce resting stages, but the references I mentioned indicate they don’t persist as long as ich does, but nobody knows for certain.
Jay

 

[sensei]

So, this is where things get messy; the anemones you removed are the issue. To be extra cautious, they need to be isolated in a fishless system for 75 days. The absolute minimum for them, if warmer than 81 degrees, would be 45 days.
Amyloodinium, velvet does produce resting stages, but the references I mentioned indicate they don’t persist as long as ich does, but nobody knows for certain.
Jay

Understood Jay, thanks a lot

until now all fish in FOLWR are alive and look clean of velvet.

I have done TTM +prazi for years and never had a fail for ich, but velvet is dificult, after TTM I observed the fish for 45 days and no signs of velvet until I placed them in FOWLR....

to avoid this problem again, I am thinking of using CP in QT while the fish are in TTM.
can you give me you thoughts about this??

do you know if CP will kill the coraline algae in my FOLWR?

best regards

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Understood Jay, thanks a lot

until now all fish in FOLWR are alive and look clean of velvet.

I have done TTM +prazi for years and never had a fail for ich, but velvet is dificult, after TTM I observed the fish for 45 days and no signs of velvet until I placed them in FOWLR....

to avoid this problem again, I am thinking of using CP in QT while the fish are in TTM.
can you give me you thoughts about this??

do you know if CP will kill the coraline algae in my FOLWR?

best regards

I don’t know if CP kills coralline, but it does kill other algae.
Jay

 

[sensei]

@Jay Hemdal

Hello Jay,

let me comment what happened:
I did the cloroquine treatment for 1 month and all fish made it.
I was so happy since all looked healthy agian and they were eating well, but yesterday I saw some white spots in the white cheek tang . The tank has been cloroquine free for 28 days after I finished the treatment..
Now I see the white spots seem to be bigger than the forst time.. I am thinking that fish may have had both velvet and ich and since I never did a fallow period in the FOWLR after the treatment and if the fish had also ich, then a cyst has started the cycle again??

please look at these photos and they me if you think it is ich??
I am not certain if velvet can still be present?

please tell me what you think

thanks for your help

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Hello Jay,

let me comment what happened:
I did the cloroquine treatment for 1 month and all fish made it.
I was so happy since all looked healthy agian and they were eating well, but yesterday I saw some white spots in the white cheek tang . The tank has been cloroquine free for 28 days after I finished the treatment..
Now I see the white spots seem to be bigger than the forst time.. I am thinking that fish may have had both velvet and ich and since I never did a fallow period in the FOWLR after the treatment and if the fish had also ich, then a cyst has started the cycle again??

please look at these photos and they me if you think it is ich??
I am not certain if velvet can still be present?

please tell me what you think

thanks for your help

Those spots almost look too large for ich. I’ve been fooled before though, if the fish is smaller than I think, the spots look proportionally larger. Seeing the tang next to the clownfish has me wondering if the tang is small.
The other thing this could be are mucus plugs. Tangs sometimes get these from some stress event. They are larger than ich trophonts and stick out from the body further.
Have the number of spots been changing daily, or are the same spots in the same location each day?
Jay

 

[sensei]

Those spots almost look too large for ich. I’ve been fooled before though, if the fish is smaller than I think, the spots look proportionally larger. Seeing the tang next to the clownfish has me wondering if the tang is small.
The other thing this could be are mucus plugs. Tangs sometimes get these from some stress event. They are larger than ich trophonts and stick out from the body further.
Have the number of spots been changing daily, or are the same spots in the same location each day?
Jay

the tang is about 4 inches big. the marron clownfish is a big one ( around 3 inches ).
the spots look like grains of salt. they change every day. sometimes I see the white spots under the skin and sometimes like a grain of salt outside the skin or a convination of boths.

please tell me what you think
thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

the tang is about 4 inches big. the marron clownfish is a big one ( around 3 inches ).
the spots look like grains of salt. they change every day. sometimes I see the white spots under the skin and sometimes like a grain of salt outside the skin or a convination of boths.

please tell me what you think
thanks

Spots changing location and changing in number on a daily basis is a symptom of ich. I don’t see any evidence of velvet (rapid breathing, not feeding, dusty sheen on the body)
I think you may need to treat the fish for ich; either copper or hyposalinity (no invertebrates present of course).
Jay

 

[sensei]

Spots changing location and changing in number on a daily basis is a symptom of ich. I don’t see any evidence of velvet (rapid breathing, not feeding, dusty sheen on the body)
I think you may need to treat the fish for ich; either copper or hyposalinity (no invertebrates present of course).
Jay

Thanks. I have never used copper. I will do TTM and leave tank fallow for 75 days.