Very frustrated...I can't keep SPS and idk why

[Biff0rz]

So, I started my tank a long while ago (check my build thread, 08/2020 technically, ty rona). I started with what I was told (hah) was live rock, it ended up being dry rock. Anyhow, I had a long hard-fought battle with dinos. I've since battled them into submission and the tank has matured and stabilized. I have a very large UV running 24x7 on the display and I keep it well maintained. I recently added an ATS and more algae are growing in there vs the display. I have balanced & stabilized all of my nutrients too. I run an alkatronic and mastertronic. All parameters have been steady, not fluctuating. Everything I feed is weighed/measured. I did this to reduce the amount of variance introduced to the tank. I haven't added fish in a while, but when I do it's not like I'm piling them in there. I have recently been adding softies and LPS successfully. I have mushrooms growing well (duh) and now some really nice torches growing nicely and splitting. Goni's have started to spread/grow, as have some paly's. I've tried sps a few times - most times have been way too early and they all nuked. Those were my fault for sure. As of late, I tried one easy sps - a forest fire digi. This recently nuked - the tips turned brown (looked dino-ish) and the stick experienced some stn. The polyps have also sunk back in and barely show. Needless to say, it's not doing great. I got the stick from a local reefer who's been my mentor, he's helped me immensely. He has a very successful setup and beautiful acro tanks, so I trust his advice. He's also very stumped with my situation. The stick came from his tank, was encrusting on the plug, so it's not like it was freshly cut. He measured par in his tank before taking it out and I matched the same par on my tank. I've also mimic'd his dkh so I can make transfers even easier.

Flow: two mp60's & two no-name variable speed powerheads. The tank as a LOT or a little flow, essentially no dead spots and I can dial it up or down with my apex.
Lighting: 5x Kessil a360we blue's. Par is measured with a seneye, and ranges from 400 (surface) to ~100 at the sandbed. Obviously this changes around the tank but I try to par-match corals when they come in.
Parameters:
SG: 35ppt
Temp: 78* +/- .2*
dKh: 8.25 - I very seldom experience large swings. The alkatronic and carx help keep this super stable. I've made changes along the way but it's been done slowly and with good Sodium Bicarbonate and small additions. You can see the past 90 days here (green, min ~8, max ~8.6, yellow is ph):

NO3: this used to be high before the tank settled, and swung a lot. It used to sit around 30-40 and could have +/- 10 swings. As of late, the past 3mo, it's been steady, slowly coming down, from 15 and currently sitting around 10. Chart:

PO4: this was a similar pattern to no3. I started adding (and actually maintaining gfo). It's now slowly rising but stead around 0.04-0.06. Chart:

CA: its a little high but it's been sitting at 520
MG: also a little high, sitting around 1500
I2: I also have been tracking iodine as of late, sitting around 0.04

Next plan of attack is to get an ICP done. Other than that, I am out of ideas. Thoughts? Ideas?

p.s. I hate dino's, they suck and can DIAF.

 

[blaxsun]

Do you dose trace elements at all? I have about a dozen or so SPS that are all doing well - including two acroporas and three monti caps. My corals seem to like it a bit "dirtier", with nitrates ~20ppm and phosphates ~0.1-0.15ppm. Flow is pretty good and the SPS are getting roughly 150-175 PAR.

I try to keep my alkalinity around 8.25dKH, calcium around 450 and magnesium around 1450. I dose Nyos Active Elements, Strontium and Iodine as well as Red Sea ReefEnergy and PolypLab ReefRoids.

 

[Biff0rz]

Do you dose trace elements at all? I have about a dozen or so SPS that are all doing well - including two acroporas and three monti caps. My corals seem to like it a bit "dirtier", with nitrates ~20ppm and phosphates ~0.1-0.15ppm. Flow is pretty good and the SPS are getting roughly 150-175 PAR.

I try to keep my alkalinity around 8.25dKH, calcium around 450 and magnesium around 1450. I dose Nyos Active Elements, Strontium and Iodine as well as Red Sea ReefEnergy and PolypLab ReefRoids.

I do not dose any trace right now. My mentor uses the moonshiners method however. I've debated going into that but figured I need a single 'easy' sps to stay alive.

 

[blaxsun]

I do not dose any trace right now. My mentor uses the moonshiners method however. I've debated going into that but figured I need a single 'easy' sps to stay alive.

Monti caps have been fairly resilient for me.

 

[jda]

I would not waste your money on ICP. The chances that it finds something actionable is really low - there is rarely a smoking gun. Even if you get one, there is total doubt that you could trust the values anyway with the inaccuracies of most ICP tests.

Go back to the basics... make sure that your refractometer is calibrated, check your temp with something with mercury in it, check your test kits to be in date and change some water for a reset.

A small pack of real live rock might help. Diverse microfauna and microbes and stuff are really good.

FF Digi is not the easiest of digis. Find a slimer, monti cap, birdsnest, some weed-type ORA acropora or other easier corals and give it a shot again in a few weeks.

 

[Biff0rz]

I would not waste your money on ICP. The chances that it finds something actionable is really low - there is rarely a smoking gun. Even if you get one, there is total doubt that you could trust the values anyway with the inaccuracies of most ICP tests.

Go back to the basics... make sure that your refractometer is calibrated, check your temp with something with mercury in it, check your test kits to be in date and change some water for a reset.

A small pack of real live rock might help. Diverse microfauna and microbes and stuff are really good.

FF Digi is not the easiest of digis. Find a slimer, monti cap, birdsnest, some weed-type ORA acropora or other easier corals and give it a shot again in a few weeks.

Thanks, will do. I think most monti's are fairly easy. Lower flow, par, and mostly hardy. Good idea.

From this

To this

LOL... Cry.

 

[jda]

Nasty. Sorry. That almost looks chemical. If you added any chemicals, vibrant, etc. for the ugly phase, it could be lingering. I would run some GAC and change some water while you check your basic stuff. It cannot hurt and only can help. If you add supplements beyond the big-3, then I would stop... at least for now.

Yes, montis are easy, but some are harder than others. FF, ORA German Blue (awesome coral) are harder than most others.

 

[adsf430]

I had the same issue with acros and it turned out to be PH related from too many CO2 swings from having company over or a lot of cooking since I'm in an apartment in NYC. CO2 scrubber has done wonders. I find the higher my PH is the better my acros do. When I'm away it hits 8.7 and I come back to them all fluffy with new noticeable growth in merely a couple days.

 

[Yellowsound]

A few thoughts:

-I assume you’re using RODI for your source water? 0 TDS?

-You have softies (any leathers?) & goniopora in your tank. Are you running carbon? Just trying to rule out chemical warfare.

 

[Biff0rz]

A few thoughts:

-I assume you’re using RODI for your source water? 0 TDS?

-You have softies (any leathers?) & goniopora in your tank. Are you running carbon? Just trying to rule out chemical warfare.

Yes rodi, 0 tds. I frequently change my filters.

No leathers, one small goni but not even close to the acro. I had the acro in a frag rack on the glass. I am running carbon, it could use a change.

I did use some vibrant, but it was a while ago in February l. I stopped once I saw "the thread". I think I did two doses.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

From my understanding of Vibrant aka AlgaeFix, it disperses quickly so you likely don’t have any left. That said, the damage may be done. Have you tried any since you stopped dosing Vibrant?

PAR is on the lower side for acros. Do you have readings from where the acros were actually placed? But that doesn’t explain the Digi, those are low PAR.

I agree that it could be chemical. Maybe try running a poly filter to make sure there are no lingering chemicals in the water.

What do you calculate your in tank turnover (flow) to be? MP60s are super high flow, but depends on placement, tank size, and settings. Acros like very high flow. I’m at 100x turnover excluding return pump.

 

[jda]

It totally could be the residual algaecide. It does bind quick, but can become unbound. Many have not had issues with corals, but many have. It is just a complete wildcard. 2.5 month ago is not that long and some have described issues for 6+ months after using it.

I would change out that carbon a few times a week for a while. Change a good amount of water a few times. Then, try again.

Even if the light was too low, which is totally possible, this usually results in different kind of death that is much slower and usually from the bottom up with pale colors.

 

[Clownreef]

Alk burn?

 

[damsels are not mean]

What fish and inverts are in the tank?

 

[JCM]

It totally could be the residual algaecide. It does bind quick, but can become unbound. Many have not had issues with corals, but many have. It is just a complete wildcard. 2.5 month ago is not that long and some have described issues for 6+ months after using it.

I would change out that carbon a few times a week for a while. Change a good amount of water a few times. Then, try again.

Even if the light was too low, which is totally possible, this usually results in different kind of death that is much slower and usually from the bottom up with pale colors.

I agree with jda. Yes, insufficient light, insufficient flow, alk swings, fish, and inverts can definitely kill corals. But not like your pictures, not that I've ever seen. To me, that clearly looks like you have something nasty in your water. Big water changes and lots of carbon would be my first step.

 

[Biff0rz]

It totally could be the residual algaecide. It does bind quick, but can become unbound. Many have not had issues with corals, but many have. It is just a complete wildcard. 2.5 month ago is not that long and some have described issues for 6+ months after using it.

I would change out that carbon a few times a week for a while. Change a good amount of water a few times. Then, try again.

Even if the light was too low, which is totally possible, this usually results in different kind of death that is much slower and usually from the bottom up with pale colors.

Hmm, ok, well, that stinks. I didn't dose a ton of it, I wasn't super consistent with it as I didn't see it doing much (at the time). I changed out a lot of carbon tonight and will do a w/c this weekend. Yea, I really do not think it's lighting. I was watching it day by day and it did not fail as you describe. I also checked it with a PAR meter and this coral was sitting around 120-150.

Alk burn?

nah

What fish and inverts are in the tank?

(don't alert the tang police, lol)
Purple tang
Yellow tang
Achilles tang
Blonde Naso tang
Leopard wrasse
Clown
Bluethroat trigger
Mandarin
Copperband butterfly
Dwarf Potters Angel - I have been watching him with a camera on the coral, he hasn't touched it. Though, I am considering placing him in a QT tank as an experiment
3 long spine urchins
lots-o-hermits
quite a few, various snails
1 emerald crab, haven't seen him in a month or so, and he wouldn't have been near this as it's high on the glass
Some of my older posts will show I had a Blueface angel, he has been sold/removed prior to this event.

I agree with jda. Yes, insufficient light, insufficient flow, alk swings, fish, and inverts can definitely kill corals. But not like your pictures, not that I've ever seen. To me, that clearly looks like you have something nasty in your water. Big water changes and lots of carbon would be my first step.

Thanks, that's the plan for this weekend is a large w/c. Carbon was changed tonight.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Yeah based on that death this doesn't seem likely there is a "bad" param. You mentioned you have no name powerheads...you sure they are not causing a voltage leak? Maybe take them out and continue water changes/carbon for a week?

You may find you can ditch those no name powerheads all together and stick to the mp60s.

Any sprays/diffusers/cleaning practices near the tank by chance? Tested for metals? Also, test chlorine in your city water as typical water filters in this hobby don't filter it. Home depot sells a test kit.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I will second the leaking voltage possibility. SPS seem to be more sensitive to it then LPS and softies. Do you have a grounding probe? If not, perhaps add one and see if the issue resolves. If it helps, then you may have a device leaking current into the water.

I would try a monticap. If any SPS is going to be a good test coral, it is a monticap.

 

[homer1475]

Also, test chlorine in your city water as typical water filters in this hobby don't filter it. Home depot sells a test kit.

The whole reason for the carbon block in a typical RO/DI setup is to remove chlorine.

Why would a typical RO/DI system with a carbon block not remove it?

Never could get a digi to grow in my tank, but acro's grow like weeds.

I would start with some simple SPS. Anything ORA, even green slimer is pretty easy as far as acro's go. Anything that has a hobby name(AKA collector name), I would stay away from for now.

 

[Yellowsound]

Yeah based on that death this doesn't seem likely there is a "bad" param. You mentioned you have no name powerheads...you sure they are not causing a voltage leak? Maybe take them out and continue water changes/carbon for a week?

You may find you can ditch those no name powerheads all together and stick to the mp60s.

Any sprays/diffusers/cleaning practices near the tank by chance? Tested for metals? Also, test chlorine in your city water as typical water filters in this hobby don't filter it. Home depot sells a test kit.

Re: metals… check any/all magnets in your system for rust. Pump magnets, ATO float switch magnets, etc. Look in the bottom of your sump for anything metal that may have fallen in undetected (screw, razor blade, etc).