Very high PO4 level with no bad effects on corals

[Hans-Werner]

So in that case, now that my phosphate level is 0.3 - I should not push it down further by phosphate removers, but just let it down slow and steady "by nature"?

Yes, this is what also the post of ocncheffy suggests.

If phosphate level is not going down, dosage of trace elements may help a bit. Accumulation of macronutrients frequently is a limitation by micronutrients/trace elements.

 

[Yehuda Dana]

Yes, this is what also the post of ocncheffy suggests.

If phosphate level is not going down, dosage of trace elements may help a bit. Accumulation of macronutrients frequently is a limitation by micronutrients/trace elements.

Many thanks

 

[Dan_P]

I am using coral-snow-plus for the past weeks (over a month now), starting with PO4 level of over 2.5 and currently at 0.3.
During that period of time, I saw that it actually do what it supposed to.
But for a reason (which I really do not know, and actually searching for) PO4 reducing stopped...
Even when I once tried to double the amount dosed Coral-snow-plus - PO4 level remains with no change

Is Coral Snow Plus a cloudy or clear solution?

 

[Yehuda Dana]

Is Coral Snow Plus a cloudy or clear solution?

Cloudy

 

[Dan_P]

Cloudy

@Dan_P might suggest that this is because the actual binding of PO4 by aragonite is a lot smaller than the hobby conventional wisdom.
And it's concentration-dependent, so if your PO4 is already low, the binding ability of CaCO3 might be undetectable.

Regardless of the capacity of the calcium carbonate to adsorb PO4, the amount it binds declines with the concentration of PO4 in the water. As you point out, there comes a point that PO4 adsorption is so small per Coral Snow dose that the hobby test kits will not detect the difference. The only option is to switch to another method or up the dose of Coral Snow.

The other factor that might be stall8ng PO4 reduction is that the system is at the point where the amount of PO4 being adsorbed to Coral Snow is equal to the amount being generated by biotic and abiotic processes. All that PO4 bound to past doses of Coral Snow are now giving some of it back, as are the other calcium carbonate surfaces In the system.

 

[Superlightman]

Yes, this is what also the post of ocncheffy suggests.

If phosphate level is not going down, dosage of trace elements may help a bit. Accumulation of macronutrients frequently is a limitation by micronutrients/trace elements.

Wich trace trace elements helps to bring it down?

 

[Yehuda Dana]

Regardless of the capacity of the calcium carbonate to adsorb PO4, the amount it binds declines with the concentration of PO4 in the water. As you point out, there comes a point that PO4 adsorption is so small per Coral Snow dose that the hobby test kits will not detect the difference. The only option is to switch to another method or up the dose of Coral Snow.

The other factor that might be stall8ng PO4 reduction is that the system is at the point where the amount of PO4 being adsorbed to Coral Snow is equal to the amount being generated by biotic and abiotic processes. All that PO4 bound to past doses of Coral Snow are now giving some of it back, as are the other calcium carbonate surfaces In the system.

I willing to switch to another method if it will decrease\observe PO4 only (and nothing else).
Any suggestions for such method?

 

[Jim Gomoll]

Has similar situation with Acro growth stalling, died, and RTN. Tossed my API test kit and bought all new set. Mix of Salifert, Nyos, and Hanna. PO4 and NO3 were high, PO4=2.2 NO3=40. Did allot of water changes, reduced my feeding, stopped using Reef-Roids, got a skimmer, upped floss changes to min. 1x week, and l dosed Phos-E. Slowly brought levels down over 2 months. PO4 is now under .1, No3 around 12. Saved 3/4 of my Acros which are growing again.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Wich trace trace elements helps to bring it down?

Liebig's law of the minumum is applicable to all nutrients: The nutrient in shortest supply will limit growth. Since it is the growth which is consuming the phosphate and available nitrogen compounds (i. e. nitrate), all trace elements must be available in sufficient concentrations.

The challenge is to provide the nutrients in a way to support mainly coral growth and limit algal growth. In my experience it is important to supply more manganese than iron. Zinc, nickel, copper, cobalt, chromium and iodine are also essential trace elements necessary for growth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wich trace trace elements helps to bring it down?

Any trace element that is limiting to the growth of an organism that may be consuming phosphate (such as macroalgae). These can include iron, manganese, and a host of other possibilities.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I willing to switch to another method if it will decrease\observe PO4 only (and nothing else).
Any suggestions for such method?

What do you want that other method to accomplish?

If you like the effect of coral snow and are worried about phosphate too low, it might be easiest to dose it.

 

[Dan_P]

I willing to switch to another method if it will decrease\observe PO4 only (and nothing else).
Any suggestions for such method?

I like GFO. Its reliable and controllable. You can reduce PO4 slowly or quickly by adjusting the amount of GFO. For me 50 mL of GFO in a small Little Fishies reactor for a 100 gallon system drops PO4 0.2 ppm within 24 hours. Less GFO will produce a smaller drop.

 

[Thales]

According to Lou Ekus, coral's zooxanthellae have general issue with absorbing PO4, which is vital for their growth and functioning (a bit opposite with NO3, as allegedly these numbers have smaller impact, but are more easily absorbed).
The only difference would be very high levels of NO3 (around 50 and above) which are toxic to most corals and other animals. He used this statement during explanation of key mechanism of NP Bactobalance polymers, which are intended to not only reducing nutrients in the water column, but also transferring it along with the bacterioplankton to the coral's tissues.

Is there support for the idea that no3 of 50 and above is toxic to corals? There are lots of examples of reef tanks running high, At the very least my tank and Sanjays tank ran at those kinds of levels and above for years.
Thanks

 

[Superlightman]

Is there support for the idea that no3 of 50 and above is toxic to corals? There are lots of examples of reef tanks running high, At the very least my tank and Sanjays tank ran at those kinds of levels and above for years.
Thanks

Depends on probably which corals and what color goal you have and also how high is the phosphate level ,some seems fine at high level some not.There was a study with picture, can't find it now ,but to high nitrate gave not good results

 

[Thales]

Depends on probably which corals and what color goal you have and also how high is the phosphate level ,some seems fine at high level some not.There was a study with picture, can't find it now ,but to high nitrate gave not good results

So, no support for the idea that 50 nitrate is toxic to corals.
If you remember the study you are thinking of I would love to see it. Thanks

 

[Yehuda Dana]

What do you want that other method to accomplish?

If you like the effect of coral snow and are worried about phosphate too low, it might be easiest to dose it.

I want to reduce my PO4 level from 0.3 to 0.08-0.05, without touching any other elements (as far as I understand, RowaPhos and others, reduce PO4 but also absorb other elements)

 

[Yehuda Dana]

What do you want that other method to accomplish?

If you like the effect of coral snow and are worried about phosphate too low, it might be easiest to dose it.

Maybe DIY lanthanum chloride solution?