Victoria Music's Custom 180 Rebuild

[Brew12]

It happened already. Forgot to close the bottom ball valve when I flipped the switch to mix the salt water. :mad:

Then this thing fell and landed in the water spill. But it was dry inside. It is not mounted in its permanent spot yet.

I wonder if they could perform some kind of brain surgery to help keep us from doing things like this.

 

[Victoria M]

Check out the spikey little Mohawk.

 

[Victoria M]

I wonder if they could perform some kind of brain surgery to help keep us from doing things like this.

Turns out I can answer that question for you...NOPE.;Wacky

 

[Victoria M]

Well, this would cover ich, velvet, non prazi resistant flukes, urinoma, and brook. It would even cover some internal parasites and bacterial infections. If this doesn't cover it, I'm not sure any single plan would.

I mean would you want to switch up which med you gave on say day 3 because you saw flukes?
Do you change what order you give those medications at times?

I realized I made a mistake thinking the copper was causing a problem with my new convict tang. I should have gone up as planned. I bet reducing the copper was the wrong move. I bet the fish was distressed because whatever it had (probably velvet by the speed of it). Not the copper. I noted many fish had increased respiration’s. But the tang had been there 3 months and looked fine, and I knew I was going to put her right into copper. It is always something. I am so disappointed.

 

[Brew12]

I mean would you want to switch up which med you gave on say day 3 because you saw flukes?
Do you change what order you give those medications at times?

I realized I made a mistake thinking the copper was causing a problem with my new convict tang. I should have gone up as planned. I bet reducing the copper was the wrong move. I bet the fish was distressed because whatever it had (probably velvet by the speed of it). Not the copper. I noted many fish had increased respiration’s. But the tang had been there 3 months and looked fine, and I knew I was going to put her right into copper. It is always something. I am so disappointed.

Here is the way I see it. Copper helps with ich and velvet.
General cure helps with flukes since it contains prazi. It also adds Metro but Metro won't be effective if not dosed every other day. So you add the metro in the days between GC.
Since you are treating for all the major players at once based on this concept, I'm not sure why you would switch them up.

 

[NY_Caveman]

Nice! Are you going punk rock on us? Maybe some color too!

 

[User]

How about this for a QT protocol.
Day 1: QT salinity matched with transport water. 1ppm chelated copper.
Day 2: 1.2ppm copper in morning, 1.4ppm copper at night
Day 3: 1.6ppm in morning, 1.75ppm at night.
Day 5: General Cure
Day 7: Metroplex
Day 9: Metroplex
Day 11: General Cure
Day 14: Display tank.

Raise salinity as needed between day 1 and day 14 to go from shipping water to display tank.

Edit: Oops.. I messed up. Fixed now.

That is some rapid QT. That’s 10 days at therapeutic copper of 1.75 and pre-emptive intestinal parasite treatment?

I usually do sequential, for about a 24-30 day QT with a bit of padding for observation.

Have you actually tried such a quick protocol?

Appreciate any info!!

 

[Victoria M]

Nice! Are you going punk rock on us? Maybe some color too!

It would be purple if I were gonna do it!

 

[Victoria M]

That is some rapid QT. That’s 10 days at therapeutic copper of 1.75 and pre-emptive intestinal parasite treatment?

I usually do sequential, for about a 24-30 day QT with a bit of padding for observation.

Have you actually tried such a quick protocol?

Appreciate any info!!

Yeah, that is pretty much the protocol hot rocks and humble fish have found to be effective right? Except 14 days of copper, it should be, if memory serves me well...weelll maybe we better double check... @Brew12

 

[User]

I don’t even know how to do that on a computer! Is it a program?

Ummm, it’s a literal piece of paper and a pen, take a photo with your phone, and email me the pic, lol

 

[Victoria M]

Ummm, it’s a literal piece of paper and a pen, take a photo with your phone, and email me the pic, lol

No...I meant how to make that pretty chart on a computer...that is a skill I do not have. I can email you my idea. Um actually I will have to get help scanning it and emailing it. lol. That is also a skill I do not have! Erm, lol?

I meant are there programs that help one make those charts?

 

[User]

Yeah, that is pretty much the protocol hot rocks and humble fish have found to be effective right? Except 14 days of copper, it should be, if memory serves me well...weelll maybe we better double check... @Brew12

There was a suggestion that 10days for copper is effective in another thread, but I don’t know where I saw that. It was recent.

The secret is moving the fish to a clean tank at the right time.

I’m not sure it’s done so fast in practice. I’m probably mistaken though- if this is the protocol they are optimizing for the quarantine business, it makes sense to try to make the turnaround as fast as possible.

I think I’d probably still do them consecutive, personally, since it’s nice to be able to observe and get a feeling for eating habits etc. but I recognize the need to be prepared to react to any occurrence of illness as they appear.

Question- would you dose all food with GC+focus+ selcon etc for the 14 days? Since I lost the anthias, I’ve been dosing all QT food with meds, preemptively.

 

[User]

No...I meant how to make that pretty chart on a computer...that is a skill I do not have. I can email you my idea. Um actually I will have to get help scanning it and emailing it. lol. That is also a skill I do not have! Erm, lol?

I meant are there programs that help one make those charts?

Oh, yeah, there are. All sorts of charts- but fir this purpose, I have s bunch of templates from years of presentations that I cut/paste and assembly in a presentation program called PowerPoint.


As for getting me the info- you can take a pic with your phone and text it to me. I’ll pm you my number

 

[Victoria M]

Regarding the GC and focus. I have never previously done that. But my QT practices are evolving. I am sure Brew will chime in and we can also ask more questions in the fish disease forum, as you know. I have all the medications on hand but have not started using them all.

 

[User]

It happened already. Forgot to close the bottom ball valve when I flipped the switch to mix the salt water. :mad:

Weird- I did exactly the same thing. Left my bucket fill valve open when I went to mix salt. 1/2 gallon on the floor before I could turn it off

 

[LBReefer]

Yeah, that is pretty much the protocol hot rocks and humble fish have found to be effective right? Except 14 days of copper, it should be, if memory serves me well...weelll maybe we better double check... @Brew12

I thought you weren't supposed to combine copper with other treatments - too much stress.

But those guys are definitely smarter than I am.

- D

 

[Brew12]

That is some rapid QT. That’s 10 days at therapeutic copper of 1.75 and pre-emptive intestinal parasite treatment?

I usually do sequential, for about a 24-30 day QT with a bit of padding for observation.

Have you actually tried such a quick protocol?

Appreciate any info!!

I have to admit I've only done it once, and that was with Anthias. Only 3 of the 7 made it through. But, compared to my 100% failure rate with them up to this point it was an improvement. I haven't had to do much QT'ing in the last year so haven't had a reason to test it further.

This doesn't treat internal parasites well. The GC and Metroplex are to take care of flukes, uronema, and brook. Copper takes care of the ich and velvet. I can definitively say that I would do this again with any copper tolerant species I wanted to add to the tank.
I will add that if there are ongoing issues at the 14 day point I would move them to a clean QT (I do keep 2 systems I can set up) instead of the DT.

 

[User]

I have to admit I've only done it once, and that was with Anthias. Only 3 of the 7 made it through. But, compared to my 100% failure rate with them up to this point it was an improvement. I haven't had to do much QT'ing in the last year so haven't had a reason to test it further.

This doesn't treat internal parasites well. The GC and Metroplex are to take care of flukes, uronema, and brook. Copper takes care of the ich and velvet. I can definitively say that I would do this again with any copper tolerant species I wanted to add to the tank.
I will add that if there are ongoing issues at the 14 day point I would move them to a clean QT (I do keep 2 systems I can set up) instead of the DT.

Thanks man, appreciate it.

It’s funny- I lost 4/5 anthias within 9 hours of each other 7 days into my usual QT. Number 5 is still going strong. Cutting down their copper time is imperative- I just think it’s so immunosuppressive/appetite suppressive for them that it’s very hard to get them through anything more than 14 days


And yeah. I have 4 QT systems in support of my DT. Adding a coral QT this week (new tank, still to buy corals). Gets crazy, fast.

 

[Brew12]

Hmm.. should have finished reading before I made the first post... more anwers.

Yeah, that is pretty much the protocol hot rocks and humble fish have found to be effective right? Except 14 days of copper, it should be, if memory serves me well...weelll maybe we better double check... @Brew12

It is, although it is still being adapted. I was pleased they have pursued my recommendation for a 10 day copper treatment and started using it. They were the ones who made me comfortable with hitting the fish with GC and Metro while in copper.

There was a suggestion that 10days for copper is effective in another thread, but I don’t know where I saw that. It was recent.

In reality, 8 days should be enough but the extra 2 are to allow for a margin of error. 7 days is the longest documented period that ich has fed on a fish. The copper keeps fish from new ich from feeding on it. So, by day 8 at therapeutic copper the fish is ich free. Copper is a poison to the fish, too, so I want to minimize the amount of time they are exposed to it.

Question- would you dose all food with GC+focus+ selcon etc for the 14 days? Since I lost the anthias, I’ve been dosing all QT food with meds, preemptively.

I tend to not dose QT food or treat internal parasites preemptively. I only do that if I see white stringy poo after day 3. If you see it before day 3 it could be intestinal sloughing due to shipping stress.

I thought you weren't supposed to combine copper with other treatments - too much stress.

The biggest fear is depleting O2. The rest of the stress is minor imo. I view QT as a race. If your fish has uronema and you start your treatment with just copper, the fish is in trouble since it now has to wait at least 2 weeks. If you start with just Metroplex and the fish has velvet it may not make it through the 10 day metro treatment. It seems fish come with all these lovely issues so I want to nail them all hard and early and then get the fish to a clean environment to start rebuilding its natural immunity. I would not do this with Prazipro since it does reduce a fishes appetite more than GC.

 

[Victoria M]

Hmm.. should have finished reading before I made the first post... more anwers.

It is, although it is still being adapted. I was pleased they have pursued my recommendation for a 10 day copper treatment and started using it. They were the ones who made me comfortable with hitting the fish with GC and Metro while in copper.


In reality, 8 days should be enough but the extra 2 are to allow for a margin of error. 7 days is the longest documented period that ich has fed on a fish. The copper keeps fish from new ich from feeding on it. So, by day 8 at therapeutic copper the fish is ich free. Copper is a poison to the fish, too, so I want to minimize the amount of time they are exposed to it.


I tend to not dose QT food or treat internal parasites preemptively. I only do that if I see white stringy poo after day 3. If you see it before day 3 it could be intestinal sloughing due to shipping stress.


The biggest fear is depleting O2. The rest of the stress is minor imo. I view QT as a race. If your fish has uronema and you start your treatment with just copper, the fish is in trouble since it now has to wait at least 2 weeks. If you start with just Metroplex and the fish has velvet it may not make it through the 10 day metro treatment. It seems fish come with all these lovely issues so I want to nail them all hard and early and then get the fish to a clean environment to start rebuilding its natural immunity. I would not do this with Prazipro since it does reduce a fishes appetite more than GC.

I am so happy you made some clarifying comments. See how a flow sheet like that one could be amazing? The if/then’s are mind boggling. ;Wacky