Vinegar dosing solely as a means of bacteria production

[ectoaesthetics]

Hey Randy (and followers of Randy),

I've been heavily considering dosing vinegar with my kalkwasser in my next build (currently underway). It kalk will be dosed to an exact amount so the addition is a known factor. I am interested in the vinegar not as a means of adding more kalk (although it will help) nor as a means of nutrient control (although I'm sure it will help there too) but rather as a way of SIMPLY increasing bacterial production in the water -which our tanks are much lower in than the ocean.

Wondering if adding an amount much lower than the amount needed to decrease nitrates in the tank would help accomplish this? Even if I am not "maxing out" my bacterial bloom as I would if I dosed a quantity to bring my nitrates down to near ULN systems it still feels like an uptick in bacteria would be a plus... Any thoughts from the vinegar experts out there?

 

[Flippers4pups]

All forms of carbon dosing is truly meant to reduce nutrients by increasing bacteria populations.

The end goal is what we are after.

What's your current N03 level and if I may ask, why are you trying to lower it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think it is a fine idea. My only concern is that if you add vinegar to the limewater and lower the pH enough that bacteria can grow in it, the vinegar is wasted and the resulting precipitation of calcium carbonate ruins the limewater. I’d make sure the pH stays above 12.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Thanks randy.

 

[BeejReef]

How did that work out for you OP?

 

[ectoaesthetics]

It didn’t! LOL not because of issues with vinegar though. I have a bag of kalk sitting next to my tank and can’t use it. My pH in this tank is crazy high as it is. Three months in with Marco rock and the coralline is growing like crazy... but constantly feel like I’m teetering in the high wire with the current pH. I have a 4.5 gallon display with an mp 10 and a return pump both blowing at my surface and the pH is still pretty high. So kalk is out and with that being out so is vinegar. Really not looking to add a dosing pump solely to dose a super small quantity of vinegar to the tank. Maybe on the next build lol.

 

[BeejReef]

Did u happen to use cement in your aquascaping?

 

[davidwillis]

I think it is a fine idea. My only concern is that if you add vinegar to the limewater and lower the pH enough that bacteria can grow in it, the vinegar is wasted and the resulting precipitation of calcium carbonate ruins the limewater. I’d make sure the pH stays above 12.

What if you added enough vinegar to bring the PH low enough bacteria would not grow? Is there just a middle range where the bacteria would grow and consume the vinegar?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What if you added enough vinegar to bring the PH low enough bacteria would not grow? Is there just a middle range where the bacteria would grow and consume the vinegar?

Yes, if you keep the pH low by adding enough vinegar it will be stable, but won’t add much calcium and alkalinity per amount of vinegar added.

 

[davidwillis]

So if I were to just take a 1 gallon jug of vinegar, how much kalkwasser could I add and still keep it stable? Both the low range, and the high range. Meaning I could add zero to x tsps to keep the ph low enough. And then I could add y tsps (ph high enough) up to z tsps (saturated, can't add more). Any idea what x, y, and z are?

Also what is the ph range where the bacteria could grow? 4-11?

Thanks so much for the help!

 

[Dan_P]

How were you planning to add Kalkwasser?

 

[BeejReef]

That would be an insane amount of carbon dosing

 

[Daddy-o]

I think ME polyp extender has a small amount of carbon in it. You could dose it and get carbon and the added benefit of amino acids.
Cheers! Mark

 

[davidwillis]

How were you planning to add Kalkwasser?

I would just mix it in the gallon of vinegar, and then dose it to the tank. I am just curious the ranges. My guess is the low ph range would be such a small amount of Kalkwasser that it would not even be worth doing. But the high end maybe would be useful. Mainly if you were to carbon dose with vinegar, but did not want the ph to drop. Maybe even do two dosing pumps, one with a high ph kalkwasser vingar mix, and one with a low, or pure vingar solution. if you got the correct ratio between the two dosses, you could maintain whatever ph you wanted without a ph swing.

Anyway, just a thought.

I have just been reading a lot of the last few weeks, and was curious about what would work or what would not.

 

[davidwillis]

That would be an insane amount of carbon dosing

I wouldn't be dosing any more carbon than normal, just using the kalkwasser to maintain a steady ph during the dose. It may not work, and it may just be better to dose the carbon separate from the kalkwasser. But I am just curious.

 

[BeejReef]

I wouldn't be dosing any more carbon than normal, just using the kalkwasser to maintain a steady ph during the dose. It may not work, and it may just be better to dose the carbon separate from the kalkwasser. But I am just curious.

I get it now.. Lol. Thought u were using kalk for your alk and calcium at first.

 

[Daddy-o]

I will say that once I quit dosing vinegar, the colors of my corals seemed better.
Cheers! Mark

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So if I were to just take a 1 gallon jug of vinegar, how much kalkwasser could I add and still keep it stable? Both the low range, and the high range. Meaning I could add zero to x tsps to keep the ph low enough. And then I could add y tsps (ph high enough) up to z tsps (saturated, can't add more). Any idea what x, y, and z are?

Also what is the ph range where the bacteria could grow? 4-11?

Thanks so much for the help!

the two options are to monitor the pH after dissolution, or to saturate the vinegar with solid calcium hydroxide (that’s what I did for manual vinegar dosing with no pH drop).

 

[davidwillis]

the two options are to monitor the pH after dissolution, or to saturate the vinegar with solid calcium hydroxide (that’s what I did for manual vinegar dosing with no pH drop).

Can you explain more about the "saturate the vinegar with solid calcium hydroxide". By solid, do you mean like a block of it rather than the powder? Do they sell blocks of calcium hydroxide? Would you just put a block of it in the vinegar, and let it sit for a day or so to become saturated?

Sorry if I am way off, I am new to dosing, and basically all of this. I have had fish only tanks, and even some soft corals, but I have never dosed anything, or done anything very complicated. I plan on setting up a 180 gallon reef tank next year (the largest tank I have had is a 55 gallon), so I am just trying to learn all I can before I start.

 

[hart24601]

I had vodka on a doser for many years just for the bacterial populations and to boost the food web. It's fun to see the increase in filter feeders and be I think it's why my blue linka start lived so song before I sold it.