Viparspectra 165W (NO LENSES) vs Kessil A160: Lux comparison

[KonradTO]

Hi everyone,
I am reporting here some tests I did with my led fixtures to compare light intensity (in LUX, not in PAR).
My fixtures are 1 Viparspectra 165W (NO LENSES) and 1 Kessil A160WE.
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The main aim for me was to understand how to set up the viparspectra for having a light output similar to my new Kessil, the way is kept in most nano tanks similar to mine (32g long, 15" deep). It seems that most people keep those at max 60-70% intensity/ 35-45% color.
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I tested light output with a lux meter. I only did test output at water level because the lux meter is not waterproof, so I cannot test for light penetration in saltwater or how much light reaches with appropriate PAR the bottom of the tank.
Nevertheless:
With fixtures set at same distance from water level (8-9")

-Viparsp. at 70%B 0%W = KessilA160 70% intensity, 0% color
-Viparsp. at 55%B 1%W = KessilA160 65% intensity, 45% color
-Viparsp. at 0%B 100%W = KessilA160 80% intensity, 100% color
-Viparsp. at 100%B 100%W = KessilA160 cannot reach, at 100% is 20% weaker than the vipar.

On a side note, the vipar produces for example 20k lux consistently (at 100%W 0%B) in an area of around 20x30cm. The kessil produces comparable light intensity in an area of around 3x3cm. This is obviously at very short distance (8"/22cm). The kessil is known for producing more of a spotlight cone rather than a diffused light.

If the luxmeter is to be relied we can see that the blue channel produces much more light intensity than the white. Also at 55%B 1%W the vipar has equal light intensity as the kessil with the settings the way is kept on most nano tanks.
You can see why people with shallow tanks can keep the vipar with lenses on at minimal settings and grow stuff.

It might be interesting to get some feedback from some experienced folk here. I am wondering how much difference there could be in terms of PAR with comparable LUX intensities.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I've played with leds for years. I only rarely used expensive leds. My go to fixture is the Reef Breeders (EverGrow) Photon. I want 6 channels of control so I can reduce the red, green and violet PAR and set both blue channels and the white channel the way I want it set. I also want sunrise/sunset with all 6 channels. I think the Reef Breeder (EverGrow) fixture is the least expensive fixture that meets these criteria and yet they are still very well made (IMHO).

I think the light issues between your two fixtures is of little importance. But your comment, "On a side note, the vipar produces for example 20k lux consistently (at 100%W 0%B) in an area of around 20x30cm. The kessil produces comparable light intensity in an area of around 3x3cm. This is obviously at very short distance (8"/22cm). The kessil is known for producing more of a spotlight cone rather than a diffused light.", is very interesting and is probably more important that the difference in light intensity.

 

[KonradTO]

I've played with leds for years. I only rarely used expensive leds. My go to fixture is the Reef Breeders (EverGrow) Photon. I want 6 channels of control so I can reduce the red, green and violet PAR and set both blue channels and the white channel the way I want it set. I also want sunrise/sunset with all 6 channels. I think the Reef Breeder (EverGrow) fixture is the least expensive fixture that meets these criteria and yet they are still very well made (IMHO).

I think the light issues between your two fixtures is of little importance. But your comment, "On a side note, the vipar produces for example 20k lux consistently (at 100%W 0%B) in an area of around 20x30cm. The kessil produces comparable light intensity in an area of around 3x3cm. This is obviously at very short distance (8"/22cm). The kessil is known for producing more of a spotlight cone rather than a diffused light.", is very interesting and is probably more important that the difference in light intensity.

Sorry for the confusion, I think I was not too clear in the thread. What I meant was not highlighting the differences in the relative % of the settings between the 2 fixtures but rather how to set the viparspectra with a light intensity that is suitable for corals. The kessil A160 is more common and many people keep with it any coral with success in shallow tanks. The vipar is a bit more tricky because some people report bleaching with intermediate settings while others keep them at maximum intensity.

 

[KonradTO]

Also from some reading in the forum I got the impression that especially SPS like acros need diffused light with appropriate PAR for avoiding shadowing. To me it seems that the vipar should be capable of growing such corals given that it is kept at good distance from the water level or lens are removed.

 

[KonradTO]

The interesting question is:
Given certain PAR output at a known distance from one fixture (in this case the kessil), can you assume that you will get similar PAR output in another fixture (in this case the viparspectra) if LUX values are the same?

 

[redfishbluefish]

There are a number of papers on conversion of PAR to LUX with various fixtures/light settings. But for me, keep it simple, and I really like what @saltyfilmfolks did in coming up with conversions of LED and T5 fixtures....it gets you in the ballpark. Unfortunately he is not longer on the site, but please search for his posts on conversion. I don't actually remember the conversion he'd use for LEDs, but I do know that a LUX of 20K-25K will give you the light to grow anything (I think that put surface PAR in the 300-400 range). I've got my three "Black Boxes" set to this range of LUX, and I've been growing everything like weeds.

My only comments on the OP's study....and I'm liking it by the way....is why no lenses. I would think a small tank with a fixture without lenses would cause for much of that light to spill over.

 

[KonradTO]

There are a number of papers on conversion of PAR to LUX with various fixtures/light settings. But for me, keep it simple, and I really like what @saltyfilmfolks did in coming up with conversions of LED and T5 fixtures....it gets you in the ballpark. Unfortunately he is not longer on the site, but please search for his posts on conversion. I don't actually remember the conversion he'd use for LEDs, but I do know that a LUX of 20K-25K will give you the light to grow anything (I think that put surface PAR in the 300-400 range). I've got my three "Black Boxes" set to this range of LUX, and I've been growing everything like weeds.

My only comments on the OP's study....and I'm liking it by the way....is why no lenses. I would think a small tank with a fixture without lenses would cause for much of that light to spill over.

The problem with the viparspectra is that must be kept at appropriate distance from the water level, otherwise you get spotlight effect, with points with much higher PAR and points with much lower PAR at the SAME height. Also the color between the channels does not mix well. In my case I live on a top floor with an "inclined" roof and therefore I can only keep the lights at 8" from the water level, no higher.
I tried with and without lenses and the color seems much better without. Also different people told me that their corals did much better without lenses (probably due to the spotlight effect I mentioned before)

 

[oreo54]

The interesting question is:
Given certain PAR output at a known distance from one fixture (in this case the kessil), can you assume that you will get similar PAR output in another fixture (in this case the viparspectra) if LUX values are the same?

Only if the spectrum is the same.
Equal Lux measured on a very blue fixture vs very white will mean very different par values.
Or should....
In simple terms a lux meter only measures a subset of a quantum meter.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/growlightmeter.com/ppfd-or-lux-what-is-the-difference/amp/

 

[KonradTO]

Only if the spectrum is the same.
Equal Lux measured on a very blue fixture vs very white will mean very different par values.
Or should....
In simple terms a lux meter only measures a subset of a quantum meter.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/growlightmeter.com/ppfd-or-lux-what-is-the-difference/amp/

Ok so you won't get right absolute values but you can make comparisons. This is quite interesting because given that I know how much PAR corresponds to 8" distance from the kessil, now I know that with matching settings I will get the same PAR values on my viparspectra.
For example https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfi...or-ai-prime-kessil-and-current-marine.306653/
This is an approximation but still can help when you are not sure how to setup a light

 

[billyocean]

Did a par reading the other day on my 300w vipars over my 125 at 13" above WL. Have more readings written down but didn't make a pic of it yet.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Those are pretty strong numbers for just 72% blues. Congratulations!

 

[SPS2020]

Did a par reading the other day on my 300w vipars over my 125 at 13" above WL. Have more readings written down but didn't make a pic of it yet.

I have a 300w VS over my 36" 60 gallon, 9 inches from the water running blues at 40% and white at 1%. I'll post PAR readings with the stock 90 degree lenses and PAR values after changing to the 120 degree lenses when they arrive in about a week. I'm setting up this tank to be a home for the extra Acropora from my main tank.

 

[SPS2020]

The problem with the viparspectra is that must be kept at appropriate distance from the water level, otherwise you get spotlight effect, with points with much higher PAR and points with much lower PAR at the SAME height. Also the color between the channels does not mix well. In my case I live on a top floor with an "inclined" roof and therefore I can only keep the lights at 8" from the water level, no higher.
I tried with and without lenses and the color seems much better without. Also different people told me that their corals did much better without lenses (probably due to the spotlight effect I mentioned before)

How do you have the VS mounted? I cannot suspend overhead where the tank is located and am looking for mounting options.

 

[KonradTO]

How do you have the VS mounted? I cannot suspend overhead where the tank is located and am looking for mounting options.

I used a metal bar hung above the tank. I used to run it 8" from water surface but now I lowered it 6" so I can tell PAR levels from the comparison with the kessil

 

[billyocean]

 

[billyocean]

At 100% blues the upper is 415...with just 1 % white it's up close to 450

 

[SPS2020]

Thank you!

 

[billyocean]

I have a 300w VS over my 36" 60 gallon, 9 inches from the water running blues at 40% and white at 1%. I'll post PAR readings with the stock 90 degree lenses and PAR values after changing to the 120 degree lenses when they arrive in about a week. I'm setting up this tank to be a home for the extra Acropora from my main tank.

Where did you order the 120 lenses?

 

[SPS2020]

Where did you order the 120 lenses?

eBay (china)