Was told in an Austrian LFS a 32g Fluval Flex would be too small for a pair of clownfish

dagerob

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Hi!

Thanks for reading this! I wanted to post this because I found it strange and wanted to know if European, more specific German and Austrian, people in general think this.

I moved from other country to Austria and after two years I decided I wanted to start again with a saltwater aquarium. Because my apartment is small I got a Fluval Flex 123L (32g) marine complete set. I owned two tanks before, of similar sizes. Well, I did my research and found out that many experienced reefers (in English speaking forums) say this tank could host at least four small fish, including a pair of clowns. I found several videos and other sources for this too. However, when I went to a LFS here, they told me that tank was small and I could have only one small clownfish, and nothing more. I found that strange, as it is a much more conservative stocking number than the general internet consensus. So I tried looking what other German speaking aquarists said in google, and from the limited German forums I found they said the same, that clownfish need at least 200L, and nothing else could be added. In the LFS the clerck showed me small gobies as almost the only fish that could live there too.

So my question to you is, are they right? I find it really strange to be sincere. I have seen many nano tanks hosting more than two clowns and other invertebrates, including corals and anemones (they also told me the tank was too small for an anemone). Are there any Austrian, German or Europeans here that could help me clear this out?

Thank you for reading!
 

Quietman

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I have one clown in a 34 gallon. I didn't have anemone at first and he was very active. Now that she's female and bigger, she stays around a much smaller territory (1/4 of tank) with one of the anemones (splits leave me with several now). I don't see an issue in a 34 gallon but clowns can get aggressive (why I only have one) and smaller tank may impact future stock you may want with respect to providing sufficient room to minimize conflict.
 
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dagerob

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Yes, for sure, I was thinking of eventually adding one clown, a firefish, a royal gramma, and maybe a blue damsel or two at the end. Not sure but based on what I have researched that is an acceptable number if I test the parameters are nice and low.

That is why I found it so strange, maybe people are just mor conservative in regard to that here? Or the hobby is not so mainstream, and they are still behind on knowledge etc. ? I don't know, but thanks for your insights!

I just hope no one restrains from selling me the fish though based on what they believe is best...
 

MaxTremors

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Personally, I would not put a single clown in less than 15g and 20g for two. 32g is plenty of room for two clowns and 2-4 other small fish, this LFS either thought you were talking liters, or the person was inexperienced and didn’t know what they were talking about.
 

stevolough

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maybe they misunderstood and think you have a 32 ltr tank? i have had a clown in a 10 gallon for years.
Is it possible some types of clowns maybe need more space? My pecula clowns are in a 100 but never leave the left side of the tank.
 

Rmckoy

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Personally, I would not put a single clown in less than 15g and 20g for two. 32g is plenty of room for two clowns and 2-4 other small fish, this LFS either thought you were talking liters, or the person was inexperienced and didn’t know what they were talking about.
Or … years ago they suggested a min requirements for 1 clownfish was 30 gals .
I believe live aquaria still goes by those min requirements as well .
I think the lfs has no clue what he’s talking about and regurgitating what he was told or read 25-30 years ago they don’t want that sale today
 

melonheadorion

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i have 3 clowns and a flame tail blenny in a 20 gallon long with 2 anenome. the clowns never leave their respective anenome, so the fact that they dont need swimming space is definately no issue.
 

Nano sapiens

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Also depends on the type of Clownfish since some species get quite large.

In nature, Clownfish typically do not stray far from their anemone. Doing so is risky for them as they are poor swimmers and could easily end up as lunch. So they are pretty good candidates for smaller aquaria (within reason).

From personal experience, I had a pair of Oscellaris in a 12g for a few years and I thought it might be nice to connect with a German forum or two (German is my second language). Well, that sure didn't go well even though I could show that the pair were obviously very healthy and behaved as expected.

While I could have kept them in there for much longer, when the large female reached near full size, she started showing signs of skin abrasion from my Birdsnest coral and I felt it was time to rehome them. They would not tolerate other inverts and probably not another fish in this sized tank.

If I were to have another adult pair of Oscellaris or Percula long term, I'd house them in a 20g or larger and exclude sharp branching SPS (or anything sharp for that matter). So IMO, a 32g would be fine for a pair (with or without an anemone). As for other inhabitants, others can better offer advice based on their experiences.
 

uhgster1

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Is it possible some types of clowns maybe need more space? My pecula clowns are in a 100 but never leave the left side of the tank.
I keep a clown and anemone in a ten all to themselves. I had a pair in a 65 gallon that barely moved from their anemone. they really don't need that much space.
 

BitReef

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I have 6 small fish in a 29g and they are doing great. It’s been running for almost 2 years. I just tested my nitrates this morning and they are 4.6ppm. Tank maturity and filtration are factors to consider.

I have a pair of black ice clowns, 2 pj cardinals, a purple firefish and a royal gramma.
 

Kiophy

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Yes, at least in Finland the guidelines for fish are very different from many many countries. There used to be a law that you couldn't keep any kind of fish in a tank that is smaller than 40 liters. Many freshwater species have minimums such as 60 cm wide, 100 cm wide, 120 cm wide, and for comet goldfish they recommend aquaria that are at least 2 meters wide.... It's almost impossible to get any kind of goldfish in tanks that are smaller than 350 liters.

Marine aquaria have their own guidelines. For example, one of the few aquarium shops in Finland that sell marine fish says that Amphiprion Clarkii and Amphiprion Ocellaris need a tank that is 200 liters at minimum.

Also I don't know how it's elsewhere, but here pet shops usually ask what kind of aquarium you have before selling fish or inverts. I wasn't sold freshwater angelfish when I said I have a 200 liter aquarium that is over 50 cm tall.

I mostly agree with the guidelines... But sometimes they make no sense! There are people out there who don't care whether their tank is the right size for their fish, and because of that I like having some kind of guidelines.
 

bnord

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Yes, at least in Finland the guidelines for fish are very different from many many countries. There used to be a law that you couldn't keep any kind of fish in a tank that is smaller than 40 liters. Many freshwater species have minimums such as 60 cm wide, 100 cm wide, 120 cm wide, and for comet goldfish they recommend aquaria that are at least 2 meters wide.... It's almost impossible to get any kind of goldfish in tanks that are smaller than 350 liters.

Marine aquaria have their own guidelines. For example, one of the few aquarium shops in Finland that sell marine fish says that Amphiprion Clarkii and Amphiprion Ocellaris need a tank that is 200 liters at minimum.

Also I don't know how it's elsewhere, but here pet shops usually ask what kind of aquarium you have before selling fish or inverts. I wasn't sold freshwater angelfish when I said I have a 200 liter aquarium that is over 50 cm tall.

I mostly agree with the guidelines... But sometimes they make no sense! There are people out there who don't care whether their tank is the right size for their fish, and because of that I like having some kind of guidelines.
this is fascinating... do the regulations expand into other species of pets? Lizards, hamsters? Dogs?
 

kevgib67

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I have 2 clowns, royal gramma, yellow tailed damsel, diamond watchman gobie and a sixline wrass in my 32 gallon. Coming up on 1 year quick. Im religious on export, 12.5 g water changes weekly and a protein skimmer 24/7. I you handle nutrient export 6 small fish in a 32 g is very doable.
73153A1D-F479-4F83-B3CB-E089E0E14A43.jpeg
 

Kiophy

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this is fascinating... do the regulations expand into other species of pets? Lizards, hamsters? Dogs?
Yes they do. All species of animals that need a cage or a terrarium have minimum sizes for their homes. Dogs and cats don't though...
For example, rabbits have a cage bottom minimum of 120 cm x 50 cm. A bunch of rats (2-4) would need a cage of size 100 x 60 x 90 (WxDxH). A pair of budgies have a minimum cage size of 100 x 50 x 80 cm. Minimum for a corn snake would be 90 x 50 x 50 cm. A small hermit crab in a terrarium would be minimum of 30 x 30 cm bottom. All kinds of animals have set minimum sizes! All of these sizes were written on Finland's biggest pet shop chain's web page.
 

Kiophy

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Hi!

Thanks for reading this! I wanted to post this because I found it strange and wanted to know if European, more specific German and Austrian, people in general think this.

I moved from other country to Austria and after two years I decided I wanted to start again with a saltwater aquarium. Because my apartment is small I got a Fluval Flex 123L (32g) marine complete set. I owned two tanks before, of similar sizes. Well, I did my research and found out that many experienced reefers (in English speaking forums) say this tank could host at least four small fish, including a pair of clowns. I found several videos and other sources for this too. However, when I went to a LFS here, they told me that tank was small and I could have only one small clownfish, and nothing more. I found that strange, as it is a much more conservative stocking number than the general internet consensus. So I tried looking what other German speaking aquarists said in google, and from the limited German forums I found they said the same, that clownfish need at least 200L, and nothing else could be added. In the LFS the clerck showed me small gobies as almost the only fish that could live there too.

So my question to you is, are they right? I find it really strange to be sincere. I have seen many nano tanks hosting more than two clowns and other invertebrates, including corals and anemones (they also told me the tank was too small for an anemone). Are there any Austrian, German or Europeans here that could help me clear this out?

Thank you for reading!
The requirements that shops give you need to be taken as a suggestion... In many cases they are right, but since clownfish seem to stay in specific spots for so long, I don't see an issue in getting them.

If no shop sells them to you, you're luckily in central Europe. There are online shops that sell and ship live animals and corals to you without a problem. Only a few of them would bring them to Finland... Some of those shops are Masterfisch and Coralaxy.
 

kingoftheHiLLpeople

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Yes they do. All species of animals that need a cage or a terrarium have minimum sizes for their homes. Dogs and cats don't though...
For example, rabbits have a cage bottom minimum of 120 cm x 50 cm. A bunch of rats (2-4) would need a cage of size 100 x 60 x 90 (WxDxH). A pair of budgies have a minimum cage size of 100 x 50 x 80 cm. Minimum for a corn snake would be 90 x 50 x 50 cm. A small hermit crab in a terrarium would be minimum of 30 x 30 cm bottom. All kinds of animals have set minimum sizes! All of these sizes were written on Finland's biggest pet shop chain's web page.
Who make these sizes up? Members of the government?
 

Kiophy

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Who make these sizes up? Members of the government?
Good question!
Apparently they are made up by a group of animal lovers, who have made an organization that gives pet shops certificates for being "ethical". Apparently, they also are involved in creating laws related to pets in Finland. All of this done with the help of unspecified experts.
 

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