Watanabei Angelfish QT Treatment

[jacksoje00]

Hello All. My very first post on R2R so thanks for having me! I have a pair of Watanabei Angelfish on order and should arrive in the next 4 weeks.

My new fish QT method I have used with past success is first to temperature/tank acclimate, then a 5-minute freshwater dip with matching PH RODI water heated and aerated. I then transfer to a tank water bucket containing part A of Blue Life Aquatics Safety Stop which is Formalin for 40-45 mins. Then the fish are transferred to tank water bucket part B which is Methylene Blue for 40-45 mins. All (3) buckets of water are aerated and heated. Fish then go to QT tank for 6-week observation. I typically dose Cupramine to .5 mg/L and PraziPro per instructions. I also feed pellets with Metroplex, Focus, and Selcon.

My questions is: will the Watanabei Angelfish be tolerant of the above treatments, or should I revise them?

 

[threebuoys]

Hello All. My very first post on R2R so thanks for having me! I have a pair of Watanabei Angelfish on order and should arrive in the next 4 weeks.

My new fish QT method I have used with past success is first to temperature/tank acclimate, then a 5-minute freshwater dip with matching PH RODI water heated and aerated. I then transfer to a tank water bucket containing part A of Blue Life Aquatics Safety Stop which is Formalin for 40-45 mins. Then the fish are transferred to tank water bucket part B which is Methylene Blue for 40-45 mins. All (3) buckets of water are aerated and heated. Fish then go to QT tank for 6-week observation. I typically dose Cupramine to .5 mg/L and PraziPro per instructions. I also feed pellets with Metroplex, Focus, and Selcon.

My questions is: will the Watanabei Angelfish be tolerant of the above treatments, or should I revise them?

Welcome to R2R!

This is a great source of information for both beginners and experienced enthusiasts.

I assume will receive the pair via shipping from a vendor, or, will you pick them up at a local fish store?

One aspect you have not mentioned which should be considered is the relative salinity between your tank and the water in which the fish arrive. Many shippers and LFS run lower salinity than most hobbyists target. Typically, hobbyists target 1.026 sg. Many providers are as low at 1.019 sg. Raising sg 0.007 quickly can cause too much stress on the fish. Should you ave a difference more that 0.003 - 0.004, you should adjust the salinity over two or three days to be safe.

With regard to the rest of your QT protocol, your initial steps are a little more complicated that what we suggest, but are understandable. The 3 baths, freshwater (NOT RODI), formalin, and methylene blue extend the time before the fish is moved into QT and may add some stress to the fish if they were shipped overnight. If you intend to treat with copper and prazi while in QT, you may be able to avoid the baths. Copper for 4 weeks, then 2 rounds of prazi 8 days apart is good. Cupramine works at .05 ppm. I prefer to use Copper Power or Copper Safe. The formulation for these two results in a recommended dosage of 2.5 ppm. I find these products easier to administer and to maintain in the range of 2.25 - 2.50 ppm. Your testing device for copper is critical. Many use the Hanna checker. The seachem test kit also works. Finally, keep an eye on ammonia. Do not use chemical products which claim to neutralize ammonia. These products may cause false readings for the copper tests. Also, a lot of debate among users about whether these products actually work.

Good Luck!

 

[jacksoje00]

Thanks so much for your reply! I am having the pair shipped overnight to me. I have used the originally stated QT method on fish from my LFS only, but not from shipped fish. The salinity in my QT is kept at 1.020 and I do plan to drip or water transfer acclimate so the shipping water and QT salinity match.

In this case, I do think I will skip the 3 bath method and go straight to QT after acclimation. I will drop the Cupramine level to .02 and slowly bring back up to .05 and dose PraziPro accordingly. I am verifying copper levels with a Hannah checker and do not intend to use an ammonia neutralizer.

I have just heard that some Angelfish cannot tolerate copper and wanted to be sure.

Thanks again for your help

 

[threebuoys]

Sorry I didn't specifically address that. That is one reason I prefer the other two copper products. I feel they are more forgiving if doses are a fraction off. But to your question, angel fish can tolerate copper treatment, just be sure to accurately measure the concentration.

 

[jacksoje00]

Ok thanks so much!

 

[threebuoys]

Also, drip acclimation is not recommended for fish shipped overnight. When the bag is opened, the reaction between air and the built up ammonia in the bag can result is toxic conditions. So, if temperature and salinity are good, go straight to QT.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello All. My very first post on R2R so thanks for having me! I have a pair of Watanabei Angelfish on order and should arrive in the next 4 weeks.

My new fish QT method I have used with past success is first to temperature/tank acclimate, then a 5-minute freshwater dip with matching PH RODI water heated and aerated. I then transfer to a tank water bucket containing part A of Blue Life Aquatics Safety Stop which is Formalin for 40-45 mins. Then the fish are transferred to tank water bucket part B which is Methylene Blue for 40-45 mins. All (3) buckets of water are aerated and heated. Fish then go to QT tank for 6-week observation. I typically dose Cupramine to .5 mg/L and PraziPro per instructions. I also feed pellets with Metroplex, Focus, and Selcon.

My questions is: will the Watanabei Angelfish be tolerant of the above treatments, or should I revise them?

Safety stop is a bath and not treatment but nothing wrong with baths. it is formalin based but not true formalin. There are mixed feelings on effectiveness of product but I believe as a bath will be safe to use. Methelyne blue is safe at 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons and as long as pre-measured should be safe.
I would not feed metro which has to be precisely measured at 0.5 gm weight along with cupramine but allowable with Prazi
Most angels do not respond well with copper but watanbei should do well

 

[Jay Hemdal]

IMO - any sort of dip when receiving fish is not a good idea - you're hitting the fish with extra stress, right at the time when they are undergoing major shipping stress - so then, the two stresses are additive. Dips are never 100% effective, so you'll still need to treat for protozoans and metazoans. I prefer to acclimate the fish, first for the differences in water, and then for a day or two to allow them to acclimate to your tank conditions, then begin a proactive quarantine.

Cupramine is a pretty good product, but it is harsher than coppersafe or copper power. Angels can tolerate it, but Genicanthus angels overall, are more delicate, especially this species. You may run into issues like air bladder over inflation with them.

Jay

 

[jacksoje00]

Hi All. I'm very excited to say that my pair of Watanabei Angels are set to arrive this Wednesday! I just checked, via Hannah Checker, my Cupramine level and it's currently at .035. My question is: should I take this level down to 0 prior to adding the pair to QT or just acclimate and release to QT?

 

[sc50964]

How big is your QT for this pair?

and how big are the angels?

 

[jacksoje00]

It’s a 40 breeder.

 

[sc50964]

It’s a 40 breeder.

And the size of the angels?

 

[jacksoje00]

And I’m told the pair are 3-4” in length

 

[sc50964]

And I’m told the pair are 3-4” in length

My advise is to be prepared to separate them during QT. I’ve attempted to QT this family of species 4 times. They include once the Japanese masked, once the zebra, and twice the watanabei. I can say watanabei is the toughest. The female is nearly always more bold than the male, and that often leads to stress. The pairing process will often lead to stress as the male will pick up the female. Unless the QT is more sizeable, it’s better to be prepared to either have an eggcrate or a separate tank for one of them.

 

[jacksoje00]

Ok great advice, thanks. I’ll go ahead and cut an egg crate divider and be ready.

What about my original question about the Cupramine level currently at .035?

 

[sc50964]

Ok great advice, thanks. I’ll go ahead and cut an egg crate divider and be ready.

What about my original question about the Cupramine level currently at .035?

I typically take two days to ramp up to 2.0ppm on coppersafe. I haven’t used cupramine for a decade so I can’t comment on that.

i also don’t suggest to mix prazipro or general cure with copper, especially for an unpaired of angels that are about the same size.

 

[jacksoje00]

Ok thanks. I’ll play it safe and reduce the level to 0 prior to QT.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok great advice, thanks. I’ll go ahead and cut an egg crate divider and be ready.

What about my original question about the Cupramine level currently at .035?

Cupramine can be safely used at 0.5 level and CAN be mixed with PraziPro while I dont like mixing meds due to bonding with ingredients. These angels are very forgiving and can tolerate a lot as long as good water quality is provided and they have a wide diet, as they are not Picky. If you are using copper- Get right to it in 24 hours and do not ramp it up.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Can you clarify that you didn’t drop a decimal? 0.035 and not 0.35?

I find Cupramine to be a bit harsher on some fish than coppersafe. If you are going to switch, it would be best to get the Cupramine reading down to 0.01. If you are sticking with Cupramine, then stay where you are and just ramp back to 0.50 from there.

Jay

 

[jacksoje00]

Hi All - yes, I meant .35

The pair just arrived. The females was swimming about in the bag and the male was laying on it's side but breathing. I temp acclimated, ensured salinities matched, then both are in QT tank now. The female is swimming about and the male still laying on the bottom but breathing.

Is there anything I can other than just wait to help the male out?