Watch this Radion G5 video if wanting to buy used or new

Big E · May 23, 2022

Watch this video from beginning to end. I'm just passing on info as I know a lot of these used units are going up for sale now.

Tamberav · May 23, 2022

Interesting! I guess the only other option if you can’t replace one led is to buy the $200 upgrade but doesn’t g6 have even more of these low quality uv? Or maybe they found better ones now idk.

oreo54 · May 23, 2022

Even " quality" UV's in general have a shorter lifespan than " normal" diodes.
There is no proof afaic that those on the radion are "low quality".

Regarding the brand of violets/UV.
I suspect, since the only manuf. I ever saw that "rotates" the emitting surface 45 degrees is Nichia. ONLY a guess btw.

That said, good quality ot not, it still failed and failed in a way that crippled the entire light . It would have been interesting to see if it worked with that channel off though.

The " failing intermittent" is troublesome and personally have seen it more than I like.
Failing open or dead short is preferred .

reeferisland · May 23, 2022

I have recently had 3 kessil a360x lights fail. Two lost the blue channel, and one was completely dead. Two were still under warranty.

_AV · May 23, 2022

oreo5457 said:
Even " quality" UV's in general have a shorter lifespan than " normal" diodes.
There is no proof afaic that those on the radion are "low quality".

Regarding the brand of violets/UV.
I suspect, since the only manuf. I ever saw that "rotates" the emitting surface 45 degrees is Nichia. ONLY a guess btw.

That said, good quality ot not, it still failed and failed in a way that crippled the entire light . It would have been interesting to see if it worked with that channel off though.

The " failing intermittent" is troublesome and personally have seen it more than I like.
Failing open or dead short is preferred .

I know I owe you a response on a similar subject. Too many Kessil and Radion repairs lately

My guesses are as good as anyone else's as I only operate on facts available to me. But those facts do include the following:
- UV leds are by far the most common LED related failure on all Radions I've worked on.
- I can barely keep replacement UV leds in stock for all generations (G3-G5 most common repairs) of Radions.
- Nearly every Radion that comes in with a short circuit error requires at least 3-4 UV LEDs replaced. Many of them (even those that still appear to turn on) degraded down to 10-100 kOhm resistance. This is compared to a very occasional white or blue/royal LED failure.
- Looking at my statistics, for every failed white/blue LED, I replace about 20-30 UV LEDs

Another important point I'm trying to make is not that Ecotech installs "low quality" UV LEDs by choice, but that UV LED quality compared to other major colors in Ecotech lights is evidently lower. Moreover, I'm not entirely sure that "high quality" of UV LEDs which is comparable to the quality of other LEDs in these lights actually exists. My argument is that Ecotech likely installs what's in demand for the right spectrum based on what is currently available on the market. And what is available for the UV spectrum doesn't seem to match up, in terms of quality, with more common wavelengths of white and blue spectrum.

Finally, I agree that for some it would probably be good not to fail the whole light when UVs fail, especially since Radions can detect the failure. Perhaps turning off the UV channel instead and giving the owner the option to repair or keep operating the light with the limited spectrum would be a better solution. But then again, I can see how this can backfire also.

_AV · May 23, 2022

reeferisland said:
I have recently had 3 kessil a360x lights fail. Two lost the blue channel, and one was completely dead. Two were still under warranty.

Kessil A360X became the second most common light that comes in for repair. The issue with those lights is very rarely (if ever) the actual LED cluster (there will be a video on this soon). Instead, the problem is either with the power circuit (too many to list) or the LED channel circuit (mosfet or zener diode)

pecan2phat · May 23, 2022

Curious, what state is the repair service located?

The Farmer · May 23, 2022

reeferisland said:
I have recently had 3 kessil a360x lights fail. Two lost the blue channel, and one was completely dead. Two were still under warranty.

What was the issue with your kessil 360x lights

wareagle · May 23, 2022

oreo5457 said:
Even " quality" UV's in general have a shorter lifespan than " normal" diodes.
There is no proof afaic that those on the radion are "low quality".

Regarding the brand of violets/UV.
I suspect, since the only manuf. I ever saw that "rotates" the emitting surface 45 degrees is Nichia. ONLY a guess btw.

That said, good quality ot not, it still failed and failed in a way that crippled the entire light . It would have been interesting to see if it worked with that channel off though.

The " failing intermittent" is troublesome and personally have seen it more than I like.
Failing open or dead short is preferred .

Really ? Who makes them and do you have a data sheet from the manufacturer, or are you just giving an opinion based on a feeling ? The CREE warranty is one of the best in the industry and easily reflected by the quality of their products, some of them with a 10 year warranty. Who makes these diodes and what kind of reputation do they have ?

I've said it before on here, high quality fixtures will have that reflected in their warranty.

oreo54 · May 23, 2022

wareagle said:
Really ? Who makes them and do you have a data sheet from the manufacturer, or are you just giving an opinion based on a feeling ? The CREE warranty is one of the best in the industry and easily reflected by the quality of their products, some of them with a 10 year warranty. Who makes these diodes and what kind of reputation do they have ?

I've said it before on here, high quality fixtures will have that reflected in their warranty.

CREE doesn't "do" violet/UV...
Main ones making high power uv/violet leds "I " know of are:
Viosys (Seoul Semiconductor? )
Lumileds
Nichia
SemiLED
https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/ultraviolet-led-108043.html

My guess is based on les geometry.
None, btw have lifespans in the 50000hr range.. or even close.

I' m sure I'm missing some companies ..or countries .

UV-LEDs require unique and delicate production process. Nichia places strict controls from wafer manufacturing to final inspection. For more than 15 years, Nichia UV-LEDs have been chosen by demanding customers that require rigorous quality such as high precision curing, bill checker etc.

Nichia SMD LED UV NVSU233A 395nm 1030mW at 1000mA 3.45W Emitter

Nichia is one of the largest LED manufacturers in the world and known for innovation and efficiency. The NVSU233A is highly durable, bright, and homogeneous. Nichia's fine selection of products allows for greater added value in professional processing. This LED is available with three different...

www.ledrise.eu

Kingbright is a new company to me btw.

wareagle · May 23, 2022

oreo5457 said:
CREE doesn't "do" violet/UV...
Main ones making high power uv/violet leds "I " know of are:
Viosys (Seoul Semiconductor? )
Lumileds
Nichia
SemiLED
https://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/ultraviolet-led-108043.html

My guess is based on les geometry.
None, btw have lifespans in the 50000hr range.. or even close.

I' m sure I'm missing some companies ..or countries .

Nichia SMD LED UV NVSU233A 395nm 1030mW at 1000mA 3.45W Emitter

Nichia is one of the largest LED manufacturers in the world and known for innovation and efficiency. The NVSU233A is highly durable, bright, and homogeneous. Nichia's fine selection of products allows for greater added value in professional processing. This LED is available with three different...

www.ledrise.eu

Kingbright is a new company to me btw.

I know CREE doesn't make UV LED, that's why I asked who makes them and how they are compared to CREE, I probably should have been more clear, but I don't think these are good quality. The warranty alone tells me this isn't a quality product, the manufacturer probably has zero QA input of the parts they receive to make these fixtures. The warranty after repair is even worse, 30 days. Not confidence inspiring, but maybe people buy them because they think it's cutting edge tech?

You mention that UV LEDs fail early, and they do because they destroy their phosphor coating. That isn't what we're seeing here. No one is measuring the UV light output, this is complete failure.

Other typical mechanisms that lower the useful lifetime are the ageing of encapsulation materials influenced by UV-radiation

This is what you're talking about and not what we're seeing in this video.

The quality of the material in an LED has a direct impact on its performance and lifetime. The larger the number of defects in the material, the greater the likelihood that electron-hole recombination will give rise to nonradiative decay

The active media is not the only potential source of fault in LEDs. Epoxy encapsulate is designed to protect the die, but it can actually create problems of its own. The material is inherently absorptive, which means that in humidity or even corrosive environments, it can transfer moisture or caustic chemicals to the die. This can cause the contacts to corrode, leading to shorts or voltage spikes. Although passivation can help mitigate this effect, it is important to try to protect devices if they are being used in hot, humid conditions

The heat generated by these would only make the corrosion problems worse, but there's an easy way to solve this, seal the panel from moisture. These things costs hundreds more than they're worth, and they get put over saltwater, with fans in them to draw in humid air. It just doesn't get anymore foolish than that.
Again why I think these are low quality, but the entire fixture would lead to the same low quality conclusion.

Indeed, in tests of ultraviolet LEDs, electrical stress degraded performance more than thermal stress

There's a dang good reason the Coral Care was put in a sealed pool fixture, it's like experienced professionals actually engineered the product to last in a hot corrosive environment. Still the only high priced LED on the market worth it's price.

Understanding and Preventing LED Failure

LEDs have a well-deserved reputation for high-efficiency operation, not to mention high reliability. Properly specified and implemented, LEDs should and do satisfy virtually every lighting application.

www.digikey.com

LED Failure Modes and Methods for Analysis

LED’s open the way to new applications and markets in various different fields with a broad spectrum of requirements. Beneath other beneficial characteristics, in general, LED’s provide a high reliability, and a lifetime of more than 50;000 hours can be reached. Poor workmanship in manufacturing...

www.led-professional.com