Man these look sweet. I have had a couple custom tanks made in the past but after owning a smaller WB would have 0 issues getting these if I wanted a tank that size. I am impressed how WB keeps pushing forward.
Waterbox just dropped the biggest rimless tank!
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blitzkragz
Active Member
Its more about the relative temperature difference in the water and air temperatures. You will get less evaporation the closer the air temperature is equal to or greater than the water temperature.
blitzkragz
Active Member
The biggest issue has been finding the optimal screen mesh size that doesn't clog over time but isn't too coarse and let fine detritus through. 50-75 micron were too fine and clogged after a couple months. 300 micron never showed any signs of clogging but let too much fine stuff through. I have been running 130 micron for the last few months and so far so good. Also the original pressure pump on it I suspect was leeching metals, which has since been replaced with a thermoplastic pump. Overall I don't know what I would do without it.
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Yes they're definitely awesome looking tanks....BUT...the 320 is priced 2 grand more than the comparable Red Sea 3XXL900!...and I don't think an extra 5 or 6 inches on each side pane is worth the extra 2k. Also, the Promax 230 and 270 makes the Reef 180 and 220 seem redundant and obsolete. They should just discontinue the Reef 180 and 220, then price the Promax 230 and 270 more in line with their competitors. WB may include the tank stand, but if you start pricing your tanks in the 6 to 7 grand price range, that's Reef Savvy territory. I was recently quoted $6,200 for an 70x30x24 with armored seams, phantom bottom, etc. Was looking forward to seeing the new WB tanks, but didn't expect to see such a price hike. The Innovative Marine EXT 200 (70x30x21) looks to be a solid deal, but I just don't like the euro braced look....but I may have to suck it up and live with the braced looked if I want that sized tank with an aluminum stand and a price point less than 4k!
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was the reef savvy with a stand too? The aluminum stands are not cheap.
Quote was without the stand...but I'm talking about premium pricing that falls within the top shelf build quality realm of Reef Savvy. If I'm looking at a 6+ grand price tag, I'll go with a Reef Savvy, accept the build lead times, and just have an aluminum stand built. They're hundreds of machine shops and frame builders across the country that can easily build a stand for a fish tank...or one can just buy the extruded aluminum components from a place like 80/20 if capable of DIY. Devin from Reef Dudes showed how easy it was to use 15 series aluminum beams to build his floating light fixture...same could be done to build a stand. Either way, for 6+ grand, I'd go with a Reef Savvy all day and easily figure out the stand equation. Waterbox is just now stepping into the extra large, non-euro-braced tank game....and we now know about the Red Sea XXL750 stand issues leading to tank failures...we have yet to see how the large WB tanks will hold up. You won't have to 'wait and see' how a Reef Savvy holds up....and at a 6 to 7 grand price range...I don't expect to have to wait and see for anything negative to happen. That's my opinion on it anyway....
Good we have options! I’ll go with waterbox! Despite how easy you make aluminum stands I know they are expensive and then you get WB skin over it, sump, plumbing and other features that ad up to thousands for most of us.
clearly your going with reef savvy and that’s great, good company and tanks but I don’t personally see the prices competitive since looking at complete systems ready to add water vs a tank.
Edit,
I was curious so I went to a couple 80/20 sites and looks like cost for the large size is 1,200 give or take.
The WB sump is 47.2"×22.8"×15.7" and around 70 gallons, if BRS has sumps that size I missed them, but the closest I found is CWT 55, 40 inches long and 55g and is 730. So right there is pushing 2 grand.
The stand also offers equipment panel which the BRS controller board is 250 bucks, it also has ATO container 13.8"×22.8"×14.6" 18g. On BRS ruby and sapphire offer 10g containers that are around 180, but of almost half the size. If you wanted to double those up to 20g then looking at 360.
Then there is still the coated wood cabinet over the aluminum, I am not sure how to even acquire or fit those on your own. I am sure many people do, but I don't. Then there is the plumbing all sorted out and fitted correctly and included in the price.
My point isn't to discount custom tanks, but I think it's important if comparing two brands to fully compare what is included and many people like myself don't want to fuss with having a stand built and hoping everything fits well and they looking at sumps, and all that stuff.
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Most people who upgrade to larger tanks tend to have equipment that can be used from previous builds. For example, my last tank was a DSA 105....and I have an Apex, Kessils, an Aqua C EV-240 skimmer, the new Red Sea skimmer, a Trigger Systems 44" sump, dosing pumps, UV, reactors, etc, etc. so the only thing I would have to add is an extra Kessil light, and the stand...plumbing is an insignificant cost relative to everything else. So if you're starting from scratch, then yeah, go with a complete system, but if you have numerous components on hand that can be used on a larger system, and a budget in this price range, then the math is obviously different.
100% correct, great to have those options. I was thinking many would get these larger tanks and be upsizing from smaller tanks so the smaller equipment isn’t optimal and be looking for a larger sump - of course those other items you list like lighting, uv, reactors... those don’t come with the WB (unless getting the optional lights) so don’t factor into the price difference analysis.
I think I may have missed your edited section of your post earlier, but here's a good example of a better value than the WB Promax when using the "best bang for your buck" approach. The Innovative Marine 200 EXT or INT tanks offer a 70x30x21 footprint, euro-braced, and with a black or white aluminum stand that has side doors, no sump or plumbing included, for $3,999...and is currently on sale for $3,400. The comparable sized Promax 270.6 with it's included sump and plumbing is 6 grand!....and today was the last day to get free shipping if you pre-ordered one...from Sunday forward, WB will charge you for shipping. The Red Sea stands obviously aren't aluminum, but the comparable sized Red Sea XXL 750 with sump and useless quantity ATO box is $3,700/$3,800 for black and white respectively. The WB 320 is 7 grand...2k more than the comparable RS XXXL 900 for 4.8k to 4.9k. I just don't see 2 grand more worth of features in the WB Promax series to justify the cost over the comparable options...Now I will say that WB providing the Pro Max stands fully assembled is a great feature, but again...2 extra grand??? So it'll be interesting to see how many Pro Max's WB will sell...especially if they continue to offer the similarly sized, except for the 6 inch difference in width, Reef series tanks. IMO...WB has over-priced these tanks....they're probably all made in the same province if not same factory in China as IM, Red Sea, and the rest of them....but time will tell how many they sell. Like you said however...choices and options for everyone to decide from! Cheers.
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ReefBeta
Valuable Member
Do you know that the 180 gallon tank only holds less than 160 gallon of water? The volume is air displacement, not water capacity, because of the glass thickness and filling height. The bigger the tank is the bigger the difference, because glass will be thicker. It's especially important to realize when dosing by water volume.
PilotOfSubmarines
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After owning a 220.6 Reef Pro for 11 months I would not hesitate a second to get the ProMax. I would not, however, pay 2x the price I did for my 220.6 for the extra 12" length and 6" depth. I understand the stand is better and blah blah but the 220.6 has been perfect.
The real cost is not even in the glass/stand itself....it's when you add the upper end equipment....that by itself is 2.5-3x the cost of the glass/stand. If you really go all out on the equipment end for the ProMax you're talking $14-15k before adding water.
The real cost is not even in the glass/stand itself....it's when you add the upper end equipment....that by itself is 2.5-3x the cost of the glass/stand. If you really go all out on the equipment end for the ProMax you're talking $14-15k before adding water.
I would just encourage anyone that even if doing a cost analysis just be sure to compare apples to apple for example the IM 200:
Ultra-Thick 19mm High Clarity Low Iron Glass
Euro Brace Thickness: 15mm
Bottom Glass Thickness: 22mm
The promax 270 has no euro brace which is a big deal to some, not all but some, has the same 19mm glass but 2 15mm (30mm) bottom panel which is not quite 50% thicker. The water height is also 23” which is a couple inches taller than the IM. Again might not matter to some, but good to consider.
I’m not going to say it’s worth the 2k cost over the IM for everyone, but it would be for me.
Agreed. Especially if WB plans to continue selling the "Reef" series 130/180/220 models. My guess is that many will decide on the value of the Reef series over the ProMax. I'm interested in seeing feedback on how many potential buyers would see the value in paying the premium on the ProMax models.
Yeah, I noticed the same thing. I'm sure you found out the dimensions at this point, but you have to click a link on one of the other series of tanks...each has a "technical specifications" link. Clicking this will show you all the reef tank specs....the ProMax pages don't have the tech-spec link....just an oversight on their part...sure they'll figure it out sooner or later.
It is rather funny, just a couple years ago when Red Sea came out with the 750s it was everyone's complaint that it just wasn't big enough and these mass manufactured tank companies really should be looking at producing tanks in the 8 foot range. And now we are here with a tank that's pretty close and everyone's saying that it's too expensive and you'd be better off going custom ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious There's just no winning
I don't think anyone was expecting the ProMax series to each be 2k more than it's closest competitor. I believe that's the point people are making. No one expected the larger tanks to be cheap...but if you think a 2k premium over a similarly sized and equipped tank is reasonable, then I guess everyone will have their own perspective on it....
My new Planet 215G plus ALL equipment, lights, rock, pumps, stand, skimmer, apex, sump, apex, flake food, etc cost less than this.
Wow...you must've had it for a while, or glass prices have more than doubled, because I just got a quote from Planet, through Dallas North Aquariums, for a tank 70x30x24, no stand, for $7,200. I laughed at the guy and said Reef Savvy quoted me $6,200 for the same dimensions...thanks but no thanks.
gentlefish
Well-Known Member
+1 would also live in a trailer. My wife would toss me out.
Yes, clearly I do know. There is further displacement from sand, rocks, and decoration; but that's not the point of discussion here. I think you missed the point of my previous posts.
What you describe is actual tank volume taking into consideration glass thickness, internal dimensions, fill level, etc, etc. etc.
My problem is with manufacturers who include the volume of the sump, top off container, overflow, fish room sink, and the volume of water in the pond next door in the tank's size. Historically, all tank manufacturers took the length, width, and height to calculate the size (volume wise) of the display. Why include the neighbor's tank in that calculation too?
In case of Waterbox and this particular tank the user gets a feeling that they are getting a 320 gallon tank where in fact the display is only 230 Gallons.
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