We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

There were so many requests to test the Black Box LED that Ryan finally had to bring one in and test it. We can't wait to see where this thread...
  1. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Active Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    Thanks, It's not always easy. I have spent much of today trying to develop my pitch to the team why I need a $10,000 Photosynthesis Yield Analyzer :)

    http://www.walz.com/products/chl_p700/mini-pam-II/introduction.html
     

  2. BoomCorals

    BoomCorals www.boomcorals.com R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor Toys For Kids Sponsor

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  3. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Active Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    This is 100% true and I am glad that people bring it up because it's real. All of the videos are marketing materials in some form but marketing doesn't always have to be a bad word or infer some type of deception. I look at it like this. If we help people find success with a tremendously difficult hobby hopefully there will be some value in there. If rather than just being a place to buy stuff we demo it first so you have a better idea of what you are buying there might also be some value. Lastly, if we can help with the setup and ongoing use in a way that helps achieve success there is hopefully some value in there as well. If there is enough value hopefully someone will buy something. If the info is accurate and results in success hopefully there is some ongoing mutual success in there somewhere.

    Looking back on it, this BB video was just a major deviation from our normal approach. We try our best to focus on the methods, practices, and gear the team has used to achieve success here and in our homes. This is a positive message on what works best for us rather than focusing on a negative message of what we don't do. Because so many reefers asked I wanted to do the BB video but since this isn't something anyone is using here and the performance data was less than stellar it just came out much different than what we normally do. I do think the performance data just is what it is. Reefers can make their own opinions based on the data. The safety stuff has been discussed to death and if I had to do it over again I would mention it because it is responsible to do so but I would have mentioned it fewer times. I also recognize that all BB are not the same but the reefing community refers to BB as one giant umbrella because they do share many similarities. In the end I am going to stick the approach of focusing on that positive and productive message based on where we find the most success so I probably won't do another video like this one. However, there are a 100 other ways to achieve success outside of what we share, 100 other places to gather information and what works for us is not even close to the only methods. This is just a cumulative opinion and experience from a group of successful reefers, we are human so sometimes we are just wrong. There is also no way around it, we have to have some kind of bias but that's more so based on what we have been successful using more than what we sell. What we sell is a result of what we have been successful using.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  4. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Active Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    After reading his awesome research I can't help but want one LOL
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
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  5. DSC reef

    DSC reef Coral wasted R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    A lot of appreciate what you do Ryan. Unfortunately there will always a few that can't help but say it's all for your revenue because what they use isn't the best displayed product in your testing. Just know a majority appreciate you guys and the time and money you guys put in to give us actual facts.
     
  6. Tristren

    Tristren Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Make sure to mention that it combines the merits of its predecessor “MINI-PAM” with most modern LED and computer technology.

    So how can you not buy it.

    I think it's fair to say that for most consumers the quality of fluorometer a retailer has is a key determinant of choice.

    I can just speak for myself in saying that if I know my ecommerce provider is using a fluorometer with a transflective touchscreen, then I'm much more likely to recommend them to my friends and family.

    If I find out that if my supplier of reefing dry goods and accessories is using a yield analyzer that isn't expandable through accessories such as external multicolor lamp, optical oxygen sensor and barcode scanner, then I will view them less favourably in terms of Innovation and Dedication to Customer Experience. I would be Less Likely to make another purchase from them in the next 30 days.


    Feel free to quote these separately in your deck.

    Cheers, Tony
     
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  7. Tristren

    Tristren Active Member Build Thread Contributor

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    I think you're right that the positive "what works for us" perspective is what makes sense for the bulk of your videos. It matches the "sincere hobbyist" brand identity that you've built (by being a sincere hobbyist) and it obviously makes most sense as a retailer as well.

    But I would say that you need to balance that with some honest highlighting of things you find don't work. Balancing cons with your pros is certainly helpful for us as hobbyists and consumers as well. It is also good for your brand and reinforces the objective nature of your videos. Particularly in the BRS Investigates series. I'd say that extends to occasionally doing something like this one on a product you don't carry.

    I suspect that, with the path you're following, going from just highlighting all the good stuff available into the space of doing that but also moving the hobby forward and questioning the common understanding (ie water changes, diffusers, etc), you'll bump into this more going forward.

    Provided you keep the positive perspective on the innovations and investigations I'd say you're in a good place for quite a while.



    Tony
     
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  8. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    We need to give the credit to Ryan at BRS and his crew.
    They are doing video reviews of products that are not exclusively sold on BRS. Many people will watch the videos and benefit from them then, buy from the vendors with the cheapest price.
    So if pushing their sales and profit is their major goal, they would not do these videos.
     
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  9. DSC reef

    DSC reef Coral wasted R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Yet you say you still "appreciate" what they do??? If you think there so biased then don't watch the videos. If you think there actually trying to scare people into buying radions, your quote by the way, then make your own video since your so scientific. Lol. There's many more that actually do appreciate what BRS does.
     
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  10. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    Sorry I disagree.
    I found that episode was very well made and dumps up the decades of finding about live rock for reef aquariums.
    The true live rocks you referred to was rocks lift from the ocean and shipped by air to you.
    These rocks in my opinion, are the worst to add to or start with, a reef tank. Most of the reef life on these rock will not survive, including some bacteria. These are the source of pollution for years to come.
    For example, many years ago I have one giant piece of those, algae keep growing on the same area of it, no matter what I did, algae just kept growing. One day I smashed it open and found a pocket of some black glue like decaying matter trapped inside and tge decaying matter was sipping through pores on the rock.
     
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  11. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    I think this hobby will be better served without boat and air rocks.
    It is bad for your tank, bad for the environment. The importation of boat and air rocks has been declining over the yeas, which is a good sign.
     
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  12. BoomCorals

    BoomCorals www.boomcorals.com R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor Toys For Kids Sponsor

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    My personal experience I disagree. I did my cube with all live rock from tampa bay saltwater, and it was great. Only bad thing that came in on that rock was a gorilla crab, which I caught and got rid of. I had a tiny ammonia cycle to .5 ppm, and after 1 week was able to add fish, and never had a trace of ammonia or nitrite after the first week. (skip cycle tank is what they call this) I never had any problems with anything after that other than the normal growing pains of any new tank.
     
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  13. BoomCorals

    BoomCorals www.boomcorals.com R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor Toys For Kids Sponsor

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    I disagree. Companies like TBS use man made rock they drop into the ocean to make "live".
     
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  14. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    Here is a graft to show toaster decline of live rocks import through the years.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1506699485.659960.jpg
     
  15. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    The above graph is from this paper: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1506699723.804575.jpg
     
  16. BoomCorals

    BoomCorals www.boomcorals.com R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor Toys For Kids Sponsor

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    I wasn't disagreeing with the decline of live rock imports.
     
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  17. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    The decline of live rock import is due to better knowledge gains despite the saltwater aquarium market is larger and larger every year.
     
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  18. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    It has the same problem with naturally collected live rocks.
     
  19. dz6t

    dz6t Active Member

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    The problem is drop into the ocean. Many naturally occurring marine life heavily depend on plankton feeding, which can not survive in reef tanks let alone the pests these rocks carry. There are companies that aquaculture rocks using manmade rocks, those are better.
     
  20. Ryanbrs

    Ryanbrs Active Member R2R Supporter Platinum Sponsor

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    My very first tank was a 90 with "the package" from TBS. I have to say I thought the instant reef effect was super cool and packaged in water shipped airport to airport represents what live rock should be. I think this approach was part of the success of my first tank because it was so easy and instantly awesome from a new tank owner perspective. That said, my experience follows others. Most of the cool filter feeders died within a year or so and I had a lot of pests. There had to be 30+ gorilla grabs and a dozen mantis shrimp as well as some other pretty undesirable creatures I won't list because I can't prove they came from the rock. As to the crabs and mantis, I spent a lot of time getting rid of them but after all those months I never saw them bother anything other than some snails so in hindsight I think I should have just let them be. If a new tank owner asked me about it and understood the long-term reality I'd say go for it because it was a really cool tank.

    However today I am looking to set up 10 year sps tanks and that often means a ridiculous attention to not introducing pests of any kind. I may not win that battle outright right but I can put up a decade-long fight : )
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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