We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

David Prescott

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I couldn't even get GSP to open under them.

Me either, mine started to disintegrate so I turned them down to 5% and they still wouldn't recover so I pulled the lights. Didn't think I could get them sold on CL so was saving them for a fuge since they seemed to be good at growing algae on my rocks. I thought about opening and taking the 90 degree optics off but I know it will void the warranty, I guess that's a non issue on a light that's not growing coral for you. I bought the Vipar Spectra that is supposed to have the UV spectrum which BRS showed was seriously lacking in their BB but it didn't work out for me. Maybe it's my water quality, flow, etc.
 

reeferfoxx

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Me either, mine started to disintegrate so I turned them down to 5% and they still wouldn't recover so I pulled the lights. Didn't think I could get them sold on CL so was saving them for a fuge since they seemed to be good at growing algae on my rocks. I thought about opening and taking the 90 degree optics off but I know it will void the warranty, I guess that's a non issue on a light that's not growing coral for you. I bought the Vipar Spectra that is supposed to have the UV spectrum which BRS showed was seriously lacking in their BB but it didn't work out for me. Maybe it's my water quality, flow, etc.
I have better luck growing LPS and SPS like acros vs GSP with my black box.
 

enveetie

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Does anyone have any idea if pulling the lenses on a SB or other BB will broaden the laser beam spread?

the light spread is substantial, but the loss of par is also VERY substantial. so much so i will not leave the lenses off being sps dom.
 

enveetie

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Does anyone have any idea if pulling the lenses on a SB or other BB will broaden the laser beam spread?

the light spread is substantial, but the loss of par is also VERY substantial. so much so i will not leave the lenses off being sps dom.
 

dz6t

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Lumping all black box together is not a fair comparison. Also the expansive led does not last forever either. I can prove to you that with the same amount of money, 8 black box plastered over a tank can have much better growth result and comparable color than one expansive led.
It is like a Kia vs a Lamborghini, they both get the job done. But people has preferences and everyone should be able to choose what they like.
 
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dz6t

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In the end this is not one or the other. Just about having a real understanding of the differences between each light and making informed decisions based on your own perception of value.

We will do our best to keep chugging along and presenting the data : )

Very well said! Great job guys.
 

dz6t

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the light spread is substantial, but the loss of par is also VERY substantial. so much so i will not leave the lenses off being sps dom.

Yes, it is the same experience I have with MarsAqua. But not with Reefbreeders or SB blackbox.
Marsaqua I used to have indeed had lower par than some other brands.
Not all black boxes are created equally. There are also some eBay black boxes use 1w chips instead of 3w chips they advertised.
 

chipmunkofdoom2

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To be frank basically everyone I know thinks I am insane for even doing this one and sharing that you absolutely can have success with a $99 light. I can tell you most of the partners we work with have distinctly asked me to not to shine a light on black boxes as a legit option. However, the community asked enough and it is part of the reefing universe so I felt compelled on this one : )

You guys deserve a lot of kudos for doing this anyway. You already had my business, but you'll definitely continue to get it. As I said, I really respect you guys for doing this.

If it's true that your partners asked you not to do this video, that's a real shame. Whether they like it or not, black boxes are here, they work, and a TON of people use them. This should, if nothing else, demonstrate to the American manufacturers that there's a demand for simple, cheap and effective LED lighting solutions. Anything from Kessil, EcoTech or AI that will match a black box in coverage and PAR in the $600 range.

I know it's impossible for American-made products to compete on price with cheap Chinese labor, especially with the quality of parts used. But I wouldn't expect the features and polish of a Radeon XR30 or a Kessil AP700 for $99. All they'd really have to do is just copy a black box. Put some LEDs in a box, add a UL-listed power supply, add some knobs to control white and blue channels, and you're done. Don't add wifi/app connectivity and don't bother testing the spectrum and coverage (I doubt the black box manufacturers did). Do what the Chinese did: make it simple, but use quality parts and make it in the US. I know next to nothing about retailing LED aquarium lights, and I know even less about the profit margins of the big LED manufacturers, but I really think a device like this could sell profitably in the $200 - $300 range.

Might it eat into the flagship sales of the $600 - $800 LED fixtures? Sure. But the $99 black box is doing that already.

Just my $0.02. Thanks again for putting this together!
 

gcarroll

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Personally I would rather be concerned with keeping the tank healthy and growing versus always being concerned about the greater possibility of a fire while I am not at home!
If you were there when I saw one burn up before my eyes, you might reconsider. I would hate to think what could have happened had Dave Botwin not been there to quickly unplug it! I was only ticked that I didn't get it on video! The brand of light was Taotronics. I have also noticed it is fairly popular with the Florida reefers.
 

dippydawg

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I have been using mine since July 2015 and have so far not had any issues. I do not believe that they all use the same spectrum or the same heat sinks or drivers. There seems to be 3 groups of black box quality out there with the ones you reviewed in the bottom tier.
I started out with a middle tier box and got good growth and then switched the light board out to what I believe to be a top tier spectrum. the difference was immediate to both my eyes and my corals response. I ultimately purchased 2 more of the top tier lights and run 2 of the 16" over my 65 gallon.

Here is my tank before I had to break it up to move. 100% grown from frags and by black box only.
0z4qtWp.jpg


Here she is now. Been growing since March and is getting there.
fPIw7Fx.jpg
uvCId1A.jpg


I personally see no reason to be on a quest to find alternative lights and am happy to have found lighting that is affordable and what I believe to be effective. The lights are also covered by a 2 year USA warranty so if I ever have any issues (which are not unheard of) I am confident I will be able to easily repair or replace.

Thank you for taking the time to do your review of black boxes! You guys really do great work for the hobby.
I have been using mine since July 2015 and have so far not had any issues. I do not believe that they all use the same spectrum or the same heat sinks or drivers. There seems to be 3 groups of black box quality out there with the ones you reviewed in the bottom tier.
I started out with a middle tier box and got good growth and then switched the light board out to what I believe to be a top tier spectrum. the difference was immediate to both my eyes and my corals response. I ultimately purchased 2 more of the top tier lights and run 2 of the 16" over my 65 gallon.

Here is my tank before I had to break it up to move. 100% grown from frags and by black box only.
0z4qtWp.jpg


Here she is now. Been growing since March and is getting there.
fPIw7Fx.jpg
uvCId1A.jpg


I personally see no reason to be on a quest to find alternative lights and am happy to have found lighting that is affordable and what I believe to be effective. The lights are also covered by a 2 year USA warranty so if I ever have any issues (which are not unheard of) I am confident I will be able to easily repair or replace.

Thank you for taking the time to do your review of black boxes! You guys really do great work for the hobby.
How high are they off your tank? What do you have the blue dial turned to and the whites
 

Kyl

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At this point, outside of a specific branded control sample you can't really treat the dozens of variations of the "black box" lights as the industry average. They range from the sub $100 Ebay / Aliexpress specials to those with a NA commercial brand usually utilising upgraded cooling, diodes, power supplies or control boards. The only common link is the housing and LED layout.

I do find that there is a fairly large niche use for all of the options, and that's in the DIY user. Upgrading power supplies / LED drivers, fans, even some of the LED's themselves is not uncommon, as is modifying the drivers to accept 0-10v signals from an external controller.

Those all add cost, time and complexity though, something many in this hobby don't want. I will say that for a DIYer, the lights can be pretty rewarding given the monetary investment versus performance. Sinking another $100 into them for a UL listed driver, controller input, diode and fan replacements to make things safe, with better performance is a cumulative win when compared against a fixture that costs $800, plus another $100 to control remotely. Now for an open aesthetic display tank, these are probably never going to be the best overall budget option. For those running hoods, or on frag systems where physical and optical aesthetics usually don't matter that much, they're hard to beat.

One thing thought many can overlook is a lack of UL certified power supply, should there be a house fire, can be grounds for insurance to become voided.

*Not a slight at all against this BRS review, it was completely on point with what you're getting with the cheap ebay special, especially highlighting the potential safety hazards with cheap, low quality power supplies lacking UL certification.
 
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hart24601

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Good video and points. Happy to see it tested. Of course there are many variations of black box, some like reefbreeders with upgraded components and their v2 which is sort of an intermediate between $100 models and premium us brands. And there are quality Chinese manufacturers like maxspect.

One can also remove lens to remove that laser beam effect. Also a cool tip, buy diffuser paper on Amazon and put between the lens and the water blocking cover or tape on outside. Makes a HUGE difference but need to mount lower or have light bleed.


I do want to say the lack of spectrum control is called "kessil logic" ;)


Even with nicer "black boxes" with upgraded components offer significant savings. Here is my 60 cube with 2 photon v2's giving literally edge to edge entire surface coverage for $700 give or take a bit. I am not exaggerating that they were a vast improvement over two radion g3 I had before over the tank. I think radion clusters and the vertical rock made the color disco on those just insane.

Forgive the spartin tank, pic when just set up.

IMG_9167.JPG
 
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Ryanbrs

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You guys deserve a lot of kudos for doing this anyway. You already had my business, but you'll definitely continue to get it. As I said, I really respect you guys for doing this.

If it's true that your partners asked you not to do this video, that's a real shame. Whether they like it or not, black boxes are here, they work, and a TON of people use them. This should, if nothing else, demonstrate to the American manufacturers that there's a demand for simple, cheap and effective LED lighting solutions. Anything from Kessil, EcoTech or AI that will match a black box in coverage and PAR in the $600 range.

I know it's impossible for American-made products to compete on price with cheap Chinese labor, especially with the quality of parts used. But I wouldn't expect the features and polish of a Radeon XR30 or a Kessil AP700 for $99. All they'd really have to do is just copy a black box. Put some LEDs in a box, add a UL-listed power supply, add some knobs to control white and blue channels, and you're done. Don't add wifi/app connectivity and don't bother testing the spectrum and coverage (I doubt the black box manufacturers did). Do what the Chinese did: make it simple, but use quality parts and make it in the US. I know next to nothing about retailing LED aquarium lights, and I know even less about the profit margins of the big LED manufacturers, but I really think a device like this could sell profitably in the $200 - $300 range.

Might it eat into the flagship sales of the $600 - $800 LED fixtures? Sure. But the $99 black box is doing that already.

Just my $0.02. Thanks again for putting this together!

One of the things I hope all the manufacturers see is the community is really behind data and results. Brand affinity alone only takes you so far. There has to be significant innovation and results to demand the prices associated with the high-end gear. My sincere hope is the next generation of lights focuses more on results and less on phone apps. The spotlight design is just dated on all fronts. Someone has to step up and create the lighting solution the community is asking for to stay ahead on the innovation front.
 

dz6t

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If you were there when I saw one burn up before my eyes, you might reconsider. I would hate to think what could have happened had Dave Botwin not been there to quickly unplug it! I was only ****** that I didn't get it on video! The brand of light was Taotronics. I have also noticed it is fairly popular with the Florida reefers.

That is because it is a taotronic. Also how long ago was it? 10 years? I have not seen a Taotronic reef led for years, and they are some of the bottom of barrel in terms of quality.
 

redfishbluefish

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That is because it is a taotronic. Also how long ago was it? 10 years? I have not seen a Taotronic reef led for years, and they are some of the bottom of barrel in terms of quality.


Taotronics today is not the same as Taotronics 10 years ago. My first "black box," albeit white, was a Taotronics with aluminum foil heat sink....not very impressive. The Taotronics fixture they are producing today are totally different with finned aluminum cooling. So not the same.
 

deluxe247

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Thank you BRS for doing this study. I find a lot of the BRS Investigates material helpful. I've been running two 16" SBReeflights units on my 90G tank for a little over a year with I think some decent success (my tank currently has other issues besides lighting, like my genuinely pathetic maintenance schedule...) These particular units have a pretty good spectral output, and better controls than low-end "black boxes". I have my lighting cycle set to adjust 3 channels every 20 minutes by as little as 1% so the light output makes a really gradual arc from sunrise to sunset and into moonlight. I will say I have had to tune the output way down to avoid barbecuing my corals, and after seeing this study, I may consider raising the light a bit more too.

I bought these fully expecting they would not be as great in every aspect as the high-end brand name lights. So far I think they've performed pretty well for the price.
 

dz6t

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That is what I meant. If an old taotronic caught on fire, I bet it was very rare, otherwise it would be all over the internet, then slap a black eye on all black box led is unfair and wrong.
 
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