We got a sneak peek of something HUGE for Radion lighting!!

[Scorpius]

All this arguing over a piece of frosted plastic. It's just a hobby folks no need to get angry with each other. LED's are not the end all be all reef lighting hence why many of us go LED/T5. NO ONE LIGHT CAN DO EVERYTHING.

 

[siggy]

Not yet!

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Nothing about Radions will appeal to me until the price drops. Lol

Agreed... overpriced with all the other Ecotech stuff.

 

[Richard baker]

I notice a lot of negative comments towards the price of the lights as with anything you get what you pay for .For instance the jebao power heads create massive amounts of flow have very effective wave patterns then they stop working in several months they are dirt cheap yes you can just get another one right we'll I for one pay for quality and reliability when I have thousands of dollars in coral depending on that equipment I have had several mp-40 for years no issues at all as long as you maintain them . As for the new G4s I have over my tank the moment you open the box you can tell they are high quality and I truly feel my purchase was money well spent . I'm looking forward to adding the new diffusers to make these lights even better

 

[Wh00pS32]

Everyone is saying the Coralcare was the first to include a diffuser but the Ai Prime also has a diffuser and thats been on the market at least 2 and a half years, its even listed on their website as including a diffuser for better colour blending.
I would not be suprised if there are even older lights that used them.

 

[Arrick_L]

Everyone is saying the Coralcare was the first to include a diffuser but the Ai Prime also has a diffuser and thats been on the market at least 2 and a half years, its even listed on their website as including a diffuser for better colour blending.
I would not be suprised if there are even older lights that used them.

The kessil AP700 has a diffuser as well. It tones down the shimmer a bit. The big differenct with the Radion diffuser is it looks like it stops the color separation and disco effect. Need to see it live to really come to any conclusion.

 

[Wh00pS32]

The kessil AP700 has a diffuser as well. It tones down the shimmer a bit. The big differenct with the Radion diffuser is it looks like it stops the color separation and disco effect. Need to see it live to really come to any conclusion.

Yes i know about the AP700, i was just wondering who was the first of the big names to include diffusers. It looks like it may have been Ai as when i checked all the Ai range are diffused.
Now this makes me wonder why Ecotech are so late to the party seeing as Ai and Ecotech merged in 2014 and are one company (but still operate as seperate entities)
I don't think the Radion diffuser works any different to any other, at the end of the day it's just a piece of frosted plastic or glass that helps blend colour.

 

[Ryanbrs]

Yes i know about the AP700, i was just wondering who was the first of the big names to include diffusers. It looks like it may have been Ai as when i checked all the Ai range are diffused.
Now this makes me wonder why Ecotech are so late to the party seeing as Ai and Ecotech merged in 2014 and are one company (but still operate as seperate entities)
I don't think the Radion diffuser works any different to any other, at the end of the day it's just a piece of frosted plastic or glass that helps blend colour.

Just to be fair, until recently there was not a lot of tolerance for anything that reduces overall light output, even if the end users would never use the additional par. A significant portion of the community was only buying lights based on PAR being horsepower and even though we are not going to drive it 200MPH most people still wanted the highest PAR option out there with the perception of getting the most for their dollar. Demand plays a big roll in what is developed and offered.

I think the desire for more PAR changed ~ 3 years ago with the most advanced users and trickled down after. Now almost everyone would take a light with much lower but appropriate par levels and better spectrum blending and light distribution

 

[A. grandis]

Makes me feel like Ecotech uses all of their customers as paying beta testers. I'm not a fan of their business model with their lighting. I understand LED is an evolving technology but why not do all the necessary R&D yourself first to come up with the absolute best light you can from the get go like Phillips did? It's like Ecotech is learning as they go funded by hobbyists who are paying top dollar for the best of the best and getting a prototype in return.

You got it man! They just can't produce the quality that Phillips did. But they are smart... The company is probably growing because of the strategies of the marketing and prices they sell their prototype. Their sponsored companies and people are targeted really well!!! They know how to choose who is going to be carrying their name. I applaud that!! And they know how to produce a clean "Apple like" PDF really well. The only bad thing is the way they compared the T5 set up with their fixture. The T5s aren't supposed to be so far from the surface, but they didn't care much about that, did they? Very good business strategies!! Is that in the name of technology or in the name of $$$? They look really professional and scientists in the pictures of their advertising. Kinda scary too. Haha!

They are making lots of money and using people to pay the gas for their fast train to run! And seems like their train runs so fast that people somehow have a way to go in, but can't jump from it. LOL!!
And... I think they give 'em some special glasses so their customers can only see what they want them to see. LOL! Oh, man...

I wish people would realize what the LED US market is all about, and try to understand that they are wasting time and money for so many years wishing and wishing with all the "investments" and "upgrades" they did.

"Well, but if "so & so" use it, should be good!!"
"See his corals?"
"Show me your tank!!"
Blah, blah, blah..

LEDs can emit with relative good intensity, but they are by nature "a flat spot". To be able to transform that light emitted by the flat spot, one needs to diffuse it somehow. They try to use lenses and diffusers. Therefore trying to produce something similar to the T5s. The problem is that they would need lots of LEDs close together to produce a more uniform light and that will be much more expensive than a good T5s fixture. Still, regardless, it will represent many spots with different spectrums and it would need to be far from the target to blend to the point of acceptable common spectrum. That is what happens when you use those Radions over the WWC coral farms or over Sanjay's tank. It works because it's far from the subject (water surface/corals). Still you can see the "disco effect" on the shallower parts of Sanjay's tank. The many shimmering lines emitted by so many LEDs aren't natural to the corals too, but many people don't care about that. I do, because that isn't the way they receive the light in the ocean and because it's ugly too.

So, do you want the very best light for your corals? Metal halides for deeper tanks and T5 HO for shallower tanks (up to 24" high). When they come up with something like the Phillips in 5 to 10 years from now we can think about changing, ok?

Bottom line: when aquarium LEDs come at least to the same QUALITY of light emitted by the T5s for shallow water tanks, then it's time to use them. Until now we have only the Phillips Coral Care that we could try if price would allow and we had available.



Aloha!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

OOOOOOOHHHHH...planning a new build and trying to figure out what fixture to go with. I've already got two XR15 G4s but was thinking of a T5 fixture. This could change things up.

Go with the ATI SunPower. No need dimmer, just the normal SunPower. You won't regret! There is a big difference between any LED in the US market and those wonderful SunPowers!!!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Looks like Phillips did make a game changer if ecotech is following suit and adding a diffuser.

Well... only if that diffuser make any of the EcoTech fixtures do exactly the same that Phillips' Coral Care does...
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Btw the diffuser panel on the Coralcare is made of glass vs plastic like everyone else. With ecotech you will get the cheap stuff as always.

And it's probably not going to come close to the results of the Coral care fixture, of course...
Money! Money! Money! $$

 

[A. grandis]

Kinda missing the point. When the Coralcare came out people talked all kinds of smack about the diffuser panel and how it decreased par too much blah blah blah. Now ecotech does the same thing and it's all of a sudden a game changer. BRS tested the Coralcare and found that it measured just like a T5 in the way it spread the light which no other led on the market can do.

Let's not forget that while the Coralcare is massive it's made of aluminum and glass. No fans and waterproof. Plus it also has what are considered the best diodes in the industry and the rolls Royce of violet LEDs with Luxeon UV. Just the violet diodes alone on the Coralcare cost more than all the diodes on the Radion wholesale.

I love this guy!

Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

On the diffuser element and coral care comparison. I totally get the comparison and even though I liked the coral care performance a lot I have to share two things. First, the coral care is not a real product in the US, not available for sale and I haven't seen any signs of that changing so /shrug. They were not the first to do a diffuser as well. Build my LED had them and diffusers are used in all kinds of other LED applications.

I don't think it is a revolutionary technology advancement. However, if you see the results in person I would absolutely say it is game changing results from a visual perspective. Really huge improvement almost anyone would appreciate. Will be really interesting to see what everyone thinks when they show up on the market.

For what it is... maybe.
Thanks Ryan for all the work you do!
You publish your ideas with truth and professionalism.
Make sure you keep your T5s running and don't change 'em just because of that plastic diffuser!!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

I was just going to say

LED is cool but until there's significant energy savings, which was part of the initial appeal, I just don't see a reason to switch from my Sunpower. Heat transfer to the water is a genuine concern, but not for me and where I live, in fact the opposite being true actually saves me money in heating for nine months of the year.

I believe in the top quality of my old ATI Power Module and my ATI SunPower. They are both working for many years without any trouble at all. I never have to worry about bulb combinations, cause most of the bulbs will do a great job!! I wouldn't change them because of heat. I want to have the best over my tanks. It's worthy!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

The only thing that draws me towards led is less maintenance. Not having to worry about how old my bulbs are and making that purchase every 6-18 months(I've heard 18 months). Plus I have several bags of different spectrum diodes to switch out if I need to. I get 10 diodes for $3-$4.

We can change the bulbs every 12 months without any problems. I see the spectrum of some of the bulbs changing after 6 months, but they hold to 12 easy. I like change the bulbs and have new colors every year. What I like the most is the quality of the light and not having to worry about anything for a year.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Wow, You do realize that those videos were not all produced on the same day, right? You do know that referring to Halide and T5 have been the "gold standard" of sps reef lighting prior to LED coming into the market, right? If you don't I'm telling you that it is!

Over the years as LEDs become more refined, they are going to surpass MH and T5. Has that day come? For some it has. Heck for many it came years ago. For others it hasn't but with each advancement those that feel that day has come grows! For me that day came when I saw the 900g sps tank of WWC. I can tell you that I have not seen corals colored like that running MH or T5. And I have seen an awful lot of coral over the years.

BTW, you must be one of the guys that give BRS TV a thumbs down no matter how much valuable info is included in their videos!

Hummm... I'm sorry, but I disagree with you, my friend.

The halides and T5 are STILL the top of lights for SPS, anemones, zoas and anything in between.

It's going to be very hard to have the LEDs SURPASS the halides and T5s for their right applications in terms of quality of light offered to the organisms, in comparison to natural light found in the ocean.
I think they could come close to it, but even though, there will still be qualities that LEDs won't be able to achieve just for the sake of their nature. But that doesn't mean that we won't be able to keep them running and having "good results", of course. AND... there is a taste matter too. What's good for me isn't for you and such a thing exists... What I look for isn't necessary what you and others look for. That needs to be respected too... I've never seen any LEDs that would reproduce natural light effects on corals' colors/growth like halides does. Never...
Another thing... the mind set for aquariums has been changed a lot nowadays in regards to light because of the new LEDs' mentality. And that's the way it is.

In regards to the WWC SPS tank... I strongly believe that great part of the "new" colors that you see there are actually reflection from the colored diodes. Again... colors aren't all about lighting. There is more to it too...

And I love BRS TV!!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Not everyone at WWC is all that excited about the Radions. I see that 900 about once a month and it will be interesting to see if it performs like it did with MH/T5.

Thanks for this post!!!
I told them they were making a big mistake when they changed!!
And I wanted to see in the long run...
I hope they will be humble enough to change it back soon!!!
Grandis.

 

[gcarroll]

I hope they will be humble enough to change it back soon!!!

The way I hear it from the Lou @WWC , you should have said... "I hope they will be stupid enough to change it back soon!!!"

By the way, he says the 900g is at it's best ever right now!

 

[WWC]

Not everyone at WWC is all that excited about the Radions. I see that 900 about once a month and it will be interesting to see if it performs like it did with MH/T5.

And who are you ? please don't put words in our mouth the stuff here at WWC could not be happier with the results that we are getting, if you seen our 900 gallon tank you would not be saying this, the tank looks the best it's ever look.

regards one of the owners, wink!!