Welcome to all the fun: setting up a 12 foot reef tank
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I do love me some flow. In my little 120 I have 2 MP40s and 2 gyres. But I love wrasses and the look of sand, so I have to shovel the sand around as often as I clean the glass.
Adding the chiller yesterday morning hopefully saved the day. Had I not had the APEX in place for the weekend, everything would have been cooked alive and this would have been a very bad morning. Ambient air was > 85F when Randy was there hooking up the 1HP chiller. Tank has been dead steady 78.5 since noon yesterday.
The tank hit 83.9 as the high. Here's to hoping the fish didn't stress too much as a tank full of iich wouldn't be a great start.
The tank hit 83.9 as the high. Here's to hoping the fish didn't stress too much as a tank full of iich wouldn't be a great start.
Daveobrien
Active Member
I don't see one for an MP60, BUT... Couple of phone calls (emails) and maybe someone can hook you up. It's pretty straightforward.
Shallow Shield:
Vortech MP40 Shallow Shield (BLACK) - Pico Aquariums
Shop The Best Saltwater Aquarium Equipment & Supplies at Saltwater Aquarium. We Carry Everything you will Need for your Saltwater Aquarium or Reef Tank.www.saltwateraquarium.com
BTW - I finally hunted down the manufacturer website. they DO make these MP60 sized. Here's the link.
Dark Side Vortech Shallow Shield
No Magnets, No brackets, No mess Works in as little as .75" of water Available for MP10-40-60
That is very kind of you. Thank you! I just reached out to them.BTW - I finally hunted down the manufacturer website. they DO make these MP60 sized. Here's the link.
Dark Side Vortech Shallow Shield
No Magnets, No brackets, No mess Works in as little as .75" of water Available for MP10-40-60picoaquariumsystems.com
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Scott are there any equipment chases that would allow for venting the canopy and equipment space through the roof? If so drawing air from the cool side to the roof may fix the temperature problems. Had similar experience with two 16' tanks when the architect blew the design requirements for venting to the roof and instead added heat only to the equipment room and over head spaces! We installed very large chillers but the poor design made it a real pain.
All the fish and all the corals look good so far. No visual iich outbreak from the heat event. The bank staff are clamoring for the big fish to come in, but we are holding off for a bit and watching the fish. We did turn the 114 watt UV on just in case.
Anybody have a strong feeling about how long we need to wait after a stress event like this? I was thinking that if iich didn't show within a week we should be good. The fish are from Quality Marine (which is a quality wholesaler) but Randy does not run copper prophylactic copper.
I was there yesterday to re-route some of the chiller plumbing and calibrate the inkbird and APEX temp probe to match each other and the chiller. That way, they all play nice with each other. APEX is there to monitor and override a failed probe. I don't like cycling APEX relays all that much.
All the corals have good polyp extension so far thankfully. Even the hammer is fine. I am going to cut and prep more zoanthids, more bubblegum digi, and some duncans to drop in later this week or next.
Once that all settles in -- and once we get the flow dialed up a little more -- I have acres of midrange monti cap and acropora ready to go.
Anybody have a strong feeling about how long we need to wait after a stress event like this? I was thinking that if iich didn't show within a week we should be good. The fish are from Quality Marine (which is a quality wholesaler) but Randy does not run copper prophylactic copper.
I was there yesterday to re-route some of the chiller plumbing and calibrate the inkbird and APEX temp probe to match each other and the chiller. That way, they all play nice with each other. APEX is there to monitor and override a failed probe. I don't like cycling APEX relays all that much.
All the corals have good polyp extension so far thankfully. Even the hammer is fine. I am going to cut and prep more zoanthids, more bubblegum digi, and some duncans to drop in later this week or next.
Once that all settles in -- and once we get the flow dialed up a little more -- I have acres of midrange monti cap and acropora ready to go.
I would let your experience guide the decision for the larger fish. In this case do not let the customer push you into choices that could harm the fish. If fish start dropping the customer will become even more of a problem. I would make sure you have the temp swings stabilized before adding more fish and inverts...just a thought.
Oh I failed to mention (I think) some fairly new information. I am not sure I totally believe it, but we are told that this weekend was a freak A/C outage and NOT a part of the HVAC schedule. I partly believe it is true as the third floor was CRAWLING with HVAC guys carrying around blueprints. I cornered one guy and he said "yeah we have a few small things to iron out". When I pressed him on the schedule he said that was outsourced to another firm, so he couldn't comment.
Randy's original drawings called for venting the sides and top of the cabinet but they ignored that aspect (plus a few others). We are cutting in 3 X 6" fans (temp controlled) to the top of the chiller cabinet along with a vent in the bottom. Might be just enough as long as the HVAC is running mid-high 70s.
We don't have a plan yet for venting the canopy. The drawing were to vent straight up but that is no longer an option. Right now, the 6 LEDs aren't throwing that much heat. Once we sort out the ballast/GFCI conflict, that will all change as 12 X 54 watt T5s light up.
Wise words.
Two of those fish are personal pets that have long since outgrown my frag systems. I promised them the upgrade back in March. George & Washington are pictured back on post #49. Awesome fish.
Update time.
Well I haven't been able to get back to the bank since Wednesday but continue to monitor and tinker remotely via the APEX. Still trying to smooth out the temperature and understand why it is so volatile. We still don't have the 12 X 54 watt T5s running yet and that is obviously going to add more heat load.
Fundamentally, the 1 HP Oceanic chiller just doesn't have the temperature resolution I like. At the minimum "differential" -- which is stated to be 2 degrees F -- we are getting more than a 2.6 degree swing.
Questions:
Who thinks that a 2.6 degree swing is no big deal?
Who thinks I should put a Ranco in front of the chiller?
Who thinks I should put a Ranco between the APEX and the chiller?
Well I haven't been able to get back to the bank since Wednesday but continue to monitor and tinker remotely via the APEX. Still trying to smooth out the temperature and understand why it is so volatile. We still don't have the 12 X 54 watt T5s running yet and that is obviously going to add more heat load.
Fundamentally, the 1 HP Oceanic chiller just doesn't have the temperature resolution I like. At the minimum "differential" -- which is stated to be 2 degrees F -- we are getting more than a 2.6 degree swing.
Questions:
Who thinks that a 2.6 degree swing is no big deal?
Who thinks I should put a Ranco in front of the chiller?
Who thinks I should put a Ranco between the APEX and the chiller?
An interesting use case for the APEX besides the usual control/monitor/alarm functions: trying to diagnose what is actually happening with your equipment over the course of a week. Here are the watts each of the InkBird controllers are pulling versus temperature. This is super insightful information.
Thank you.
Yeah, the 84 was a scary read. My phone was chirping once it passed 82. Apparently the AC broke down on that hot weekend and we couldn't get into the bank until Sunday morning to install the chiller.
The waste heat from the chiller may actually increase the temperature unless you can scavenge it away from the room or equipment space. I would put a hold on any further livestock additions until the HVAC contractors fix the problems. They are really in the drivers seat right now for success or failure of this installation. Some form of active venting of waste heat seems necessary to reach temperature stability. Tough situation and I am pulling for you!
monkeyCmonkeyDo
7500 Club Member
Fire. Straight fire. Nice work
D
D
Randy and I worked out a ventilation plan for the canopy and the chiller cabinet. Certain it will be fine for everyday situations. For a complete high summer A/C failure there could be some complications. But my APEX temp chart shows a solid improvement in temp stability 12 hours later.
I had a buddy's wedding to go to so could not help Randy with the fan/vent install last night. Sorry Randy.
The other thing changed was flow to the chiller. It was coming via a pump that first feeds the 114watt UV. We were thinking that this artificially inflates the temp of the tank water causing the chiller to overshoot. Also the added head pressure was slowing the flow, increasing the dwell time for both devices. So the source water is overheated, and the effluent overchilled. Now each will have a separate pump.
The system now has a total of NINE pumps in the water. In a "do over", I would go with a large external pump and manifold.
First, a pic of the results from last 24 hours. Randy was onsite around 5pm. This is excellent progress.
I had a buddy's wedding to go to so could not help Randy with the fan/vent install last night. Sorry Randy.
The other thing changed was flow to the chiller. It was coming via a pump that first feeds the 114watt UV. We were thinking that this artificially inflates the temp of the tank water causing the chiller to overshoot. Also the added head pressure was slowing the flow, increasing the dwell time for both devices. So the source water is overheated, and the effluent overchilled. Now each will have a separate pump.
The system now has a total of NINE pumps in the water. In a "do over", I would go with a large external pump and manifold.
First, a pic of the results from last 24 hours. Randy was onsite around 5pm. This is excellent progress.
Here is a quick and dirty depiction of the ventilation flow. We cut into the SIDES of the peninsula cabinet obviously.
I think I misspoke earlier about the volume of air these fans push. It is only 156 cfm.
Chiller kicked on just as the T5s came up for the first time at 10am. Will monitor the impact of this on the heat buildup.
12 X 54 watts in a canopy. Could be a nail-biter.
A pic of the fans that are now painted to match the cabinet.
Chiller kicked on just as the T5s came up for the first time at 10am. Will monitor the impact of this on the heat buildup.
12 X 54 watts in a canopy. Could be a nail-biter.
A pic of the fans that are now painted to match the cabinet.
laverda
2500 Club Member
I would not give a 2.6 degree temp swing a second thought if it is over a few hours. I don't think those fans are anywhere enough to vent the canopy. The screens in front really reduce the air flow as well.. Definatly not enough for the chiller cabinet. I think if you put a temp probe in the canopy and chiller cabinets you will clearly see the Temps really spike in both locations.
One way to vent the canopy would be if the top stood proud just a little bit to let the hot air rise out naturally. Just a small 1/8 gap along the length would make a big difference with the fans blowing in.
I would personally not trust the Apex so much. I would run half the heaters directly on Rancho controllers. Set them a degree lower than the ones on the apex. Or you could do it the other way around. I would not run the chiller on the apex at all. I find the apex is the least reliable of the options, besides the heaters themselves.
Also every pump you add is adding more heat. A 100 watt pump is pretty much the same as a 100watt heater on constantly.. Have you considered using the drain lines to feed your UV and chiller? You will have to get creative to remove most of the air going into the UV. I have run chillers this way for years. Drain through chiller then to filter sock/sump. I have never run a UV on my display tanks before. I feed my recirculating skimmer of a drain line. Other reactors can easily be fed thus way as well.
Looks like some very nice work otherwise.
One way to vent the canopy would be if the top stood proud just a little bit to let the hot air rise out naturally. Just a small 1/8 gap along the length would make a big difference with the fans blowing in.
I would personally not trust the Apex so much. I would run half the heaters directly on Rancho controllers. Set them a degree lower than the ones on the apex. Or you could do it the other way around. I would not run the chiller on the apex at all. I find the apex is the least reliable of the options, besides the heaters themselves.
Also every pump you add is adding more heat. A 100 watt pump is pretty much the same as a 100watt heater on constantly.. Have you considered using the drain lines to feed your UV and chiller? You will have to get creative to remove most of the air going into the UV. I have run chillers this way for years. Drain through chiller then to filter sock/sump. I have never run a UV on my display tanks before. I feed my recirculating skimmer of a drain line. Other reactors can easily be fed thus way as well.
Looks like some very nice work otherwise.
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