Well-controlled quantitative studies on growth of corals under MH vs LED?

damsels are not mean

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I've seen lots of anecdotal posts (mostly from older reefers who were around before LEDs become really popular) about how much better corals look or grow under MH lights. At the same time, many of the best looking tanks run LEDs and still grow "too much" in the way of calcium sticks. I'm open minded but have yet to see any real data or even just people's journals on coral growth to support either side of the debate. Has anyone really tested this in a setting with controlled variables? It's one of those things where "Everyone just knows" halides grow corals the best, but do they really?
 

i_am_mclovin

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All of those lights grow corals. Some are just better at it than others. People overthink way too much about their lights, or spend way too much $$ than what is needed (some of those LED's are WAY overpriced). You can have a successful tank with any of today's lights (LED, T5, or MH) period. But yes some will grow colonies faster, healthier, or even cause different growth patterns than others. Buy whatever light you feel works for your budget and with the features you need.

I did some heavy experimentation back when I ran Boom Corals, but those articles were lost when that vendor sub forum was removed. It's unfortunate as I had a ton of data there.
 

Reefing102

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I’m not sure of any actual studies. I run metal halide for the looks and for what I know. But I am one of the “before LED” reefers and for those that remember back when there was a massive lawsuit for patent issues against one of the sole players in the LED game back in the day. I have seen plenty of amazing looking tanks with LED but for me growth is all a combination of everything. Not just light but water chemistry/water stability (temp, salinity, Alk, CA, MG). If you have your parameters down, any of todays lights will be fine for a reef.

I’ve seen some anecdotal reports of LEDs give too much shadowing and creating dead spots at the bases of corals due to lack of penetration but I can’t comment on that.
 

YOYOYOReefer

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Ive always ran 400W radiums on PFO HQI ballasts. I am setting up a new system and venturing into g5 radions now. The leds have come along way. I tried the 1st gen AI sols on one of my 4 grow systems back then, i liked the blue look, but i could not get the corals to grow, moved them to my display tank and enjoyed many a thunderstorm mode when it was the latest rage. now every coral growing operation ive seen is running g5s says something to me. I think some corals will always look best under mh but not enough to say its not been beaten. I think it depends on the grower and for some corals certain tech is bettter, t5 zoas go wild. Maxima clams love halides. s
 

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Here is one with T5, LED, and LEP



This one is a bit critical of MH https://www.researchgate.net/profil...-and-its-implications-for-coral-husbandry.pdf


I am trying to find one that specifically compared MH to LED so I'll share it if I find it
 
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i_am_mclovin

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Ive always ran 400W radiums on PFO HQI ballasts. I am setting up a new system and venturing into g5 radions now. The leds have come along way. I tried the 1st gen AI sols on one of my 4 grow systems back then, i liked the blue look, but i could not get the corals to grow, moved them to my display tank and enjoyed many a thunderstorm mode when it was the latest rage. now every coral growing operation ive seen is running g5s says something to me. I think some corals will always look best under mh but not enough to say its not been beaten. I think it depends on the grower and for some corals certain tech is bettter, t5 zoas go wild. Maxima clams love halides. s
You haven’t seen a lot of coral growing operations then. :p
 

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Anyone else just waiting for the MH supremacists to hop on this thread? lol


IMO I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion on this as for some reason people are strangely aggressive when it comes to using whatever light they use. Its more about the right intensity, color, and spread. The source is very likely irrelevant.
 
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damsels are not mean

damsels are not mean

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Ive seen enough.. 10-15 years ago nobody whos paycheck came from growing sticks was using led as primary light sources. Now plenty do was the point.
Yeah. This is the best sort of "data" we have. People who make their money based on coral growth use LEDs for the most part now. It might be that MH grows them better but not better enough for the additional maintenance and chilling cost. Imagine the A/C bill in a warehouse full of those things! The same applies to the home as far as I am concerned, although to less of a degree.

Personally I can't see myself ever giving up the convenience and affordability of DIY LEDs either unless there really is something I'm missing. Last week I swapped out a bunch of LEDs in a 10 year old fixture and it cost me like $30 and an afternoon. PAR is down since I built it but I was never running it at full anyways so I can compensate. I've spent less to maintain these in their entire lifetime than most people would spend in 6 months or a year on a new bulb for other fixtures.
 

outhouse

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Anyone else just waiting for the MH supremacists to hop on this thread? lol


IMO I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion on this as for some reason people are strangely aggressive when it comes to using whatever light they use. Its more about the right intensity, color, and spread. The source is very likely irrelevant.
Not everyone is biased or ego hunting. Only reason grow houses don't use MH is the electricity cost. MH factually grow LPS better than any combination of leds you can throw at them. Best success I've had was turning intensity down on which resulted in amazing growth, but not matching 20 years of MH. Not close. But good.. if I had to put a percentage less growth with leds. I'll say 35% less growth. Not scientific per say. Just my observations after close to 30 years reefing
 

YOYOYOReefer

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Yeah. This is the best sort of "data" we have. People who make their money based on coral growth use LEDs for the most part now. It might be that MH grows them better but not better enough for the additional maintenance and chilling cost. Imagine the A/C bill in a warehouse full of those things! The same applies to the home as far as I am concerned, although to less of a degree.

Personally I can't see myself ever giving up the convenience and affordability of DIY LEDs either unless there really is something I'm missing. Last week I swapped out a bunch of LEDs in a 10 year old fixture and it cost me like $30 and an afternoon. PAR is down since I built it but I was never running it at full anyways so I can compensate. I've spent less to maintain these in their entire lifetime than most people would spend in 6 months or a year on a new bulb for other fixtures.
I had 16 400 radiums running on 4 grow tanks in the basement 800 gallons each. The 12 Iwaki 100s running 24 hours on the penductors and big becketts made the lights barely register on the power bill. we were using about $2000winter -$3400 summer on the power meter in the 90s. Mortgage was only 800 bucks.... , air exchangers, tons of salt vapor issues from the heat of the lights, led has big advantages on heat and probably some saving on the power bill.
 

JNalley

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MH factually grow LPS better than any combination of leds you can throw at them.
Not really a dig at you, but this is probably the reason this thread even exists. "Factually" in the context of this conversation means documented and compared against, and then peer-reviewed with the experiment likely duplicated elsewhere garnering the same result. To my knowledge, nothing like this exists, and if it does, I believe this is the type of evidence the OP is asking for, so please share. To use "Factually" when it is something based on your experience or things you have seen is actually Anecdotal and not fact.
 

YOYOYOReefer

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Im setting up 2 new tanks in the same room both open top shallow systems on the same common sump. 95 x22 just bought 2 5G Radions for it, the 62x22 Im gonna mount one 400 Radium overdriven on a PFO ballast (most people ideal setup in the 90s) in a full sized lumenbrite reflector just to see, cuz im curious too.
 

X-37B

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Well I have run halides from the 80's and still do.
I alao run leds.
I run halides because I like the look.
I have also ran T5's
Leds, T5's, halides, take your pic they all work if you know what your doing.
As far as whats better thats a personel choice.
Plenty of tanks out their with outstanding colors and growth running all three.
One or the other may grow corals faster but honestly I could use some of mine to slow down, lol

The bigger they get the faster they grow.

I will say that the future of leds is unlimited, imo, so pick what ya like and enjoy.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
 

outhouse

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Not really a dig at you, but this is probably the reason this thread even exists. "Factually" in the context of this conversation means documented and compared against, and then peer-reviewed with the experiment likely duplicated elsewhere garnering the same result. To my knowledge, nothing like this exists, and if it does, I believe this is the type of evidence the OP is asking for, so please share. To use "Factually" when it is something based on your experience or things you have seen is actually Anecdotal and not fact.

Easy to refute, my friend, for one, I said not scientific, and it is/was a fact for me. I was not aiming at peer reviewed study, and stated it was just my observation. Factually can mean different things in different context.

There is a reason most of us that have used both lights long term, say MH grow better. We have seen first hand higher growth rates out of MH.

As stated in the other threads, there is no scientific answer at this time as to why.

So discussions like these, by the end user, is where your going to get the most accurate data that exist.

Im going to throw a lot of UV leds at my tank, to see if that is a missing factor. I hope it offers as positive results as companies like Orphek claim.
 

YOYOYOReefer

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Im still crossing my fingers on these radion 5gs , it took me long time to finally try some modern leds. i tried the origional ai sols when those came out, didn't ring the bell for me. I too hope these leds are all that, they should be for what they cost. I would like to change out 6 halides for 6 g5s on my existing tanks.
excited to see how they look sided by side tomorrow picking up the leds.
 

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