Well-controlled quantitative studies on growth of corals under MH vs LED?

[JNalley]

Factually can mean different things in different context.

Notice how I said ""Factually" in the context of this conversation means..." This conversation is asking for:

Has anyone really tested this in a setting with controlled variables? It's one of those things where "Everyone just knows" halides grow corals the best, but do they really?

Controlled variables indicate the need for a scientific approach to claim fact. He even opens up with:

I've seen lots of anecdotal posts (mostly from older reefers who were around before LEDs become really popular) about how much better corals look or grow under MH lights.

As "factual" as your experience is, it falls into the category of anecdotal for the purposes of this conversation. So again, it wasn't a dig at you, just that using the term factually is why the topic exists in the first place.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

, its not a true science type experiment as the controls sort of exist but the variables that affect coral gowth are endless. I also agree its at best going to be based on peoples experiences and their green thumb with the sticks.
Plus if you cant grow coral under MH or LED put on some training wheels and get a set of t5s and make it easy right... lol

 

[JNalley]

, its not a true science type experiment as the controls sort of exist but the variables that affect coral gowth are endless. I also agree its at best going to be based on peoples experiences and their green thumb with the sticks.
Plus if you cant grow coral under MH or LED put on some training wheels and get a set of t5s and make it easy right... lol

I think your approach with a shared sump might be a decent attempt. But to be fair in order to really do this scientifically should be the same tank, with a carbon copy aquascape at either end, with the same powerhead in the same spot facing the opposite way, the same fish allowed to swim between the two sides, with a partition between the lights to limit bleed. All corals should be harvested from the same mother colony at the same time, and all should start at approximately the same size and shape to give this the best chance of working. This will ensure the same water chemistry, the same amount of fish poop etc. Then someone needs to log all the relevant data (growth in all 3 dimensions, etc). After a year, the lights should be swapped from one side to the other and the experiment repeated.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

I was really more thinking ill just throw an old halide over one and make sure i like the g5s before getting more but im curious to see how they look to my eye, like if chillaxin in the lazyboy which one looks best to me... then the big factor throw in some old school vho 03 actinics. and some pink floyd.

 

[zheka757]

what is everyone's goal when we want to set up tanks? Faster growth, better colors? Farming?
most setting up tanks the way we personally want to see them, All lights will keep corals alive! Some people like MH, Some people cants stand the neon colors emitting from LED fixtures, to each its own, but they all will grow corals

 

[Spare time]

Not everyone is biased or ego hunting. Only reason grow houses don't use MH is the electricity cost. MH factually grow LPS better than any combination of leds you can throw at them. Best success I've had was turning intensity down on which resulted in amazing growth, but not matching 20 years of MH. Not close. But good.. if I had to put a percentage less growth with leds. I'll say 35% less growth. Not scientific per say. Just my observations after close to 30 years reefing

You say "factually" but the whole point of this thread is that the op actually wants experimental evidence. Its simply just not possible to say that one is better than the other based on experience because observation alone is not rigorous enough to say that x or y happened. And this is the problem with this whole debate. Everyone claims B does better than C and yet have no way to back this up with any reliable measure and statistics.

 

[outhouse]

You say "factually" but the whole point of this thread is that the op actually wants experimental evidence. Its simply just not possible to say that one is better than the other based on experience because observation alone is not rigorous enough to say that x or y happened. And this is the problem with this whole debate. Everyone claims B does better than C and yet have no way to back this up with any reliable measure and statistics.

I agree with your point, and that is why I stated quite clearly its just what I "observed'". sorry that what I observed makes you unhappy.

When dealing with threads from reef central and here, there is a long history of MH outperforming leds, there is not ANY history of leds outperforming MH. We all used them in the past decades, then switched to leds, so YOU guys can complain all you want about anecdotal posts, but what it sounds like to me? is you dont like the truth.

And the same reason im using them, is why people are currently buying them. Cost of electricity, heat, and cost of bulb replacement, keeps people from using MH and VHO.

There have been no test done as asked for, so this is as good as its going to get. Dont hate us who have experience for speaking out. The question was not asked correctly. In light of there not being factual scientific data, start a poll, and ask the question to those who have ran both for more than 5 years each, and see what they have to say. You already have a few that say its equal.

 

[outhouse]

what is everyone's goal when we want to set up tanks? Faster growth, better colors? Farming?
most setting up tanks the way we personally want to see them, All lights will keep corals alive! Some people like MH, Some people cants stand the neon colors emitting from LED fixtures, to each its own, but they all will grow corals

so what it is all about, however. some lights do grow coral better than others, all light is not equal.

 

[outhouse]

Anyone else just waiting for the MH supremacists to hop on this thread?

When making post like that, you get post like mine. You asked for it, dont complain when you get it.

Its simply just not possible to say that one is better than the other based on experience

That simply is not true.

 

[Kfactor]

i like mh the look cant be beat but i also run kessil a 360x's on the sides of my mh for ramp up and down and love the look. i think it all comes down to what you like. i live in canada so the heat dont bother me right now its close to -50 lol

 

[outhouse]

Yeah. This is the best sort of "data" we have

Exactly my point, in light of the lack of scientific data.

People who make their money based on coral growth use LEDs for the most part now.

I grow branching hammer professionally, and despite the growth ive experienced with MH im not giving up my LEDS

If Anything I may ditch my cheap lights for a led that offers that MH shimmer, and I do like the ramping features even cheapo leds have now.

Im currently adding 2 UV led bars hoping to increase my leds current productivity. Since we know leds do not have the UV or near UV of MH bulbs.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I shudder at the thought of writing a peer-reviewed paper on MH v. LED. Light quality/intensity, flow velocity, nutrients, metals, etc. would have to be quantified. I'll leave that to someone else - I don't have enough years left. LOL.

 

[MartinM]

I shudder at the thought of writing a peer-reviewed paper on MH v. LED. Light quality/intensity, flow velocity, nutrients, metals, etc. would have to be quantified. I'll leave that to someone else - I don't have enough years left. LOL.

Agreed, my former medical research brain is imploding. In fact, I don’t think it’s possible to control only for the light. There’s no financial incentive either: all the big mari/aquaculture farms use NSL, and the smaller inland ones have their LEDs given to them either at cost or for free for marketing purposes.

 

[Superlightman]

Some news from our experiences? Even if it is no scientific?

 

[MartinM]

The only well-controlled studies I know are horticulture, because it’s much easier to control for the variables. Horticulture uses MH and HPS because they can‘t get the same results from LEDs and they have no bias, as yield (and ROI) is all that matters to them. Of course, plants aren’t coral, but without controlling for (or being able to control for) variables, everything else is speculation. As previously stated, all commercial farms use NSL (for ROI purposes, but also because of it’s obvious superiority), and indoor farms are sponsored by one brand or another and are obligated to promote that brand.

For hobbyist purposes, the debate is just that: debate. MH, T5s, LEDs, and combos of all three grow coral, so I wouldn’t worry too much. Personally, I use all three, and they all have their application.

 

[Big E]

I would much prefer some actual performance tests on less expensive LED brands vs the Echotechs of the world.

 

[damsels are not mean]

I would much prefer some actual performance tests on less expensive LED brands vs the Echotechs of the world.

Well light is light. So in any controlled study its not really gonna matter what the brands of bulbs and diodes are. What matters is output and spectrum. Besides, almost all emitters are made by a handful of companies and the same basket of emitters are used in most popular fixtures.

 

[Big E]

I'm not talking about diodes I'm talking about fixture comparison and bang for the buck.

For example I would buy a Reefi duo Extreme over a Radion for many reasons. Cost, warranty, build quality, shimmer, reflectors instead of lenses,ect.

I'd like to see Noopsyche and some of the other mid brands compete one to one with these overpriced brands.

I believe a lot of people would be shocked at the results and kill the hype machine on some of the of brands depicted as "better".

 

[Perry]

I'm not talking about diodes I'm talking about fixture comparison and bang for the buck.

For example I would buy a Reefi duo Extreme over a Radion for many reasons. Cost, warranty, build quality, shimmer, reflectors instead of lenses,ect.

I'd like to see Noopsyche and some of the other mid brands compete one to one with these overpriced brands.

I believe a lot of people would be shocked at the results and kill the hype machine on some of the of brands depicted as "better".

Ed,
I can offer that switching from 6xt5 and 2x75 watt sbreefbar blues, to Reefbreeders Photon V2 32 pro, and SBReef Rolan V22, that I have seen no loss in color or growth, perhaps improvements in both. My AC runs less, and tank temp has lowered by 2-3 degrees. These 2 improvements above have also helped on the power bill, especially being in FL.
Cheers

Edit: I know this is a debate between mh and led, but t5's are also great source for growing corals.

 

[Superlightman]

Ed,
I can offer that switching from 6xt5 and 2x75 watt sbreefbar blues, to Reefbreeders Photon V2 32 pro, and SBReef Rolan V22, that I have seen no loss in color or growth, perhaps improvements in both. My AC runs less, and tank temp has lowered by 2-3 degrees. These 2 improvements above have also helped on the power bill, especially being in FL.
Cheers

Edit: I know this is a debate between mh and led, but t5's are also great source for growing corals.

Yes interesting to know also against t5