What’s going on with my parameters?

[Rmckoy]

Not using the API kit anymore, using Red Sea now. Also I did not add ammonia initially… should I have?

You did. Need an initial ammonia source . Whether it be raw seafood , dr
Tim’s , fish food , or living fish .
but keep in mind it’s very cruel to use live fish .
it’s not 1980 -1990 anymore .
there are far more humane and easier ways to cycle a tank properly .

 

[Salamander-Hime]

You did. Need an initial ammonia source . Whether it be raw seafood , dr
Tim’s , fish food , or living fish .
but keep in mind it’s very cruel to use live fish .
it’s not 1980 -1990 anymore .
there are far more humane and easier ways to cycle a tank properly .

Ah I see, I thought that the stability and turbostart would be enough

 

[Rmckoy]

Okay great, and in the mean time should I just keep doing weekly 30% water changes?

Water changes depend on water test results .
if there is livestock water changes need to be more Frequent so ammonia doesn’t get high .
with no livestock I would personally dose mb7 or some other nitrifying bacteria

removing frags from the dt to the qt might need to happen …..

 

[Rmckoy]

Ah I see, I thought that the stability and turbostart would be enough

The point of the cycle is you want bacteria to colonize which will process ammonia
Of bacteria isn’t fed it will die off …
If there is too much ammonia they have to increase their population to consume the supplied ammonia and some times it takes time to colonize a large enough population to do it …

Makes sense and sounds easy right

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not using the API kit anymore, using Red Sea now. Also I did not add ammonia initially… should I have?

Ammonia chloride or a piece of shrimp- yes. BUT - DO NOT ADD EITHER NOW THAT YOU HAVE LIVESTOCK IN TANK.

 

[Rmckoy]

Ammonia chloride or a piece of shrimp- yes. BUT - DO NOT ADD EITHER NOW THAT YOU HAVE LIVESTOCK IN TANK.

Can corals live in a cycling tank ?

we don’t have to worry about gills burning but the fluctuations of parameters could make it difficult to maintain .

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can corals live in a cycling tank ?

we don’t have to worry about gills burning but the fluctuations of parameters could make it difficult to maintain .

While they can- Not recommended as they are best in an established tanks.
Stability pertains generally to corals and a cycling tank is Not considered stable

 

[Rmckoy]

@Jay Hemdal
If copper is dosed and tested with Hanna . What would cause copper to test higher 2 days later ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal
If copper is dosed and tested with Hanna . What would cause copper to test higher 2 days later ?

Sorry, is this a side question? I didn't see the issue in this thread.

It is pretty rare for copper to truly RISE over time. The tendency of course is for it to adsorb and absorb onto materials and gradually drop in concentration. Most instances are due to test kit error. The Hanna kit is pretty good, but there is a margin of error for the readings (I'd have to check the literature to see what the + and - values are). There is also an issue (for me at least) in getting all of the powder out of the packet, and not spilling some. that can affect readings. Finally, there is some potential that reducing agents (like Prime) can break the amine bond in Cupramine and possibly other copper products. That releases more free copper. To my knowledge though, the Hanna kit reads total copper, so the level shouldn't rise on the test (but the fish can die due to the increased toxicity).

Jay

 

[Rmckoy]

Sorry, is this a side question? I didn't see the issue in this thread.

It is pretty rare for copper to truly RISE over time. The tendency of course is for it to adsorb and absorb onto materials and gradually drop in concentration. Most instances are due to test kit error. The Hanna kit is pretty good, but there is a margin of error for the readings (I'd have to check the literature to see what the + and - values are). There is also an issue (for me at least) in getting all of the powder out of the packet, and not spilling some. that can affect readings. Finally, there is some potential that reducing agents (like Prime) can break the amine bond in Cupramine and possibly other copper products. That releases more free copper. To my knowledge though, the Hanna kit reads total copper, so the level shouldn't rise on the test (but the fish can die due to the increased toxicity).

Jay

@Salamander-Hime
Here is the answer for your question …..

 

[Salamander-Hime]

Sorry, is this a side question? I didn't see the issue in this thread.

It is pretty rare for copper to truly RISE over time. The tendency of course is for it to adsorb and absorb onto materials and gradually drop in concentration. Most instances are due to test kit error. The Hanna kit is pretty good, but there is a margin of error for the readings (I'd have to check the literature to see what the + and - values are). There is also an issue (for me at least) in getting all of the powder out of the packet, and not spilling some. that can affect readings. Finally, there is some potential that reducing agents (like Prime) can break the amine bond in Cupramine and possibly other copper products. That releases more free copper. To my knowledge though, the Hanna kit reads total copper, so the level shouldn't rise on the test (but the fish can die due to the increased toxicity).

Jay

It’s a bare tank so I’m guessing test error, though I’m very careful in the steps so maybe mine is defective? It’s showing concentrations of 0.34 in a tank that should have been less than 0.2… also getting different results after testing the same water again

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It’s a bare tank so I’m guessing test error, though I’m very careful in the steps so maybe mine is defective? It’s showing concentrations of 0.34 in a tank that should have been less than 0.2… also getting different results after testing the same water again

I take it you are using ionic copper/citric acid? Do you have the Hanna low range or high range tester?

Did you dose accurately? A ten gallon tank only holds 8 gallons of water, so if you measure the dose for ten gallons, you will end up at a higher than expected dose.

Jay

 

[Salamander-Hime]

I take it you are using ionic copper/citric acid? Do you have the Hanna low range or high range tester?

Did you dose accurately? A ten gallon tank only holds 8 gallons of water, so if you measure the dose for ten gallons, you will end up at a higher than expected dose.

Jay

It’s the high range test, and you’re right I do think I dosed for 10 gallons so that would make sense. Just went into my LFS and they set me up with a different kind of copper that will apparently read better on the test since it’s a higher range and they tested my devices accuracy as well. Thank you so much for your help.

 

[brandon429]

Here is exactly what happened: cycle was ready day one, fritz works, .3 is exactly what we expect from a stocked tank. It's nh4

The way your fish lived long enough to get crypto vs die by day 2 is proof of cycle done day one

You have ich because disease preps were skipped initially. Your cycle caused nothing.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It’s the high range test, and you’re right I do think I dosed for 10 gallons so that would make sense. Just went into my LFS and they set me up with a different kind of copper that will apparently read better on the test since it’s a higher range and they tested my devices accuracy as well. Thank you so much for your help.

Be careful though - changing up the type of copper you are using, without first removing all of the previous copper can really wreck havoc with your tests (usually though, that is an issue going from amine-based copper to ionic copper).

Jay

 

[Salamander-Hime]

Hate to admit this but I was reading the chart wrong for ammonia *sigh* lol parameters for today are:
Ph- 7.8
Alkalinity- 2.68
Nitrite- >1
Nitrate- 1
Ammonia- 0.12
Phosphates- 0.07

 

[brandon429]

That's perfect range for ammonia, both posts, your first and second estimate are ok and what fully stocked reefs run at, its not zero.

It helps to know your cycle isn't a factor at all in this, because bottle bac has you covered on day one.

 

[brandon429]

I recommend not owning or using the test strips in a reef tank, especially your quarantine tank. get the $59 hanna ammonia meter for use in your quarantine tank, so you know when to do water changes. You don’t need to test for ammonia in a display reef, it’s for your quarantine. If you use those strips for qt assessment they’ll kill your fish by leaving you constantly guessing what the real levels are. They’re useless in reefing.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I recommend not owning or using the test strips in a reef tank, especially your quarantine tank. get the $59 hanna ammonia meter for use in your quarantine tank, so you know when to do water changes. You don’t need to test for ammonia in a display reef, it’s for your quarantine. If you use those strips for qt assessment they’ll kill your fish by leaving you constantly guessing what the real levels are. They’re useless in reefing.

I will agree with this statement. I had ammonia test strips to use as a quick look, that I could then use my Red Sea test to get accurate if I thought it showed anything. I never got a good test read on the strips. Maybe they work better in fresh?

I think the Red Sea ammonia test works very well, but you have to be very precise with the reagents.

I agree if you are going to have fish in QT that isn’t cycled a Hanna would be much more accurate.

 

[brandon429]

Mainly folks need to know that ammonia isn’t expected to be zero, that’s the old rule that gifted bottle bac salesmen unlimited extra sales from misadvised click buyers. I think one of the key, key takeaways in updated cycling science is that even if red sea is ran exactly right per directions, and someone gets an estimated .4 reading instead of the classic .2 from running reefs, it specifically doesn’t mean their cycle is stalled.

nobody measuring on digital kits gets that issue, stalled cycles, it’s strictly a realm for non digital testing.

if someone says their ammonia clears overnite, and another party says theirs clears to zero in 3 days, it specifically does NOT mean one party has a stuck cycle, it means that’s the variation in testing accuracy both tanks show- on hanna or seneye they’d both be on spec.


counting the # of days underwater factored against Dr. Reefs study thread on # of days timing / they’re all done by day ten maximum worst case scenario / beats any form of non digital horseshoeing in my opinion


non digital ammonia testing will indicate a false stall to nearly everyone, causing them to lose track of fish disease focus and fish accclimation, the real killer. ammonia control issues don’t occur in display reef cycles. Sounds crazy am aware let’s give it 25 months more for the digital test rollout to continue to inspect that claim.