What’s this stuff? Week 3 fishless cycling
- Thread starter Andynz2000
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And they never appear in uncycled systems, youre done
visual benthic cue cycling is why the ladies love me, clamoring to get in the door as we speak
(your reported ammonia level isnt where the ammonia is at. A digital kit like seneye would be accurate for nh3 and without seneye go by # of days underwater plus any visual cues after day ten, you’re cycled)
do a big water change with the clean water
nice job cycling with tap knowing the big change was coming it saved cost
visual benthic cue cycling is why the ladies love me, clamoring to get in the door as we speak
(your reported ammonia level isnt where the ammonia is at. A digital kit like seneye would be accurate for nh3 and without seneye go by # of days underwater plus any visual cues after day ten, you’re cycled)
do a big water change with the clean water
nice job cycling with tap knowing the big change was coming it saved cost
WheatToast
2500 Club Member
Hmmm… So my old newbie temperate system, which was most definitely cycled, never left the diatom phase despite becoming over a year old when I tore it down. However, I am very sure this was because I used freshwater rocks and sand… what a terrible mistake. Some of the rocks could generate thick diatom coatings (definitely not dinoflagellates) on their surfaces/up to an inch away from them in a single day!
The nightmare:
now that is neat I hadn’t seen an approach like that + it’s tank associates nearby. That looks nice and balanced above still, no green eutrophic forest but just those interesting growths
Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
I am confused.. You had a nitrate reading before you had nitrites? Something smells off here.. Your tank shows signs of a fully cycled tank as Brandon said, yet your reported test findings would disagree. Can you elaborate more on what test kits you are using?
3 weeks in, using bottled bacteria, If you have followed the directions you are very much fully cycled.
I think many new reefers confuse "cycling" with "maturity". Your tank is cycled.. it is a newborn child. You, as the parent, must now guide it into maturity. Like all of us, you will make mistakes. you will do the best you can to correct them and hope for the best. There is no guarantee in reefing just as in parenting. If there is one comfort, at least your reef tank will not become a serial killer or child rapist if you go wrong.
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Andynz2000
Active Member
Yeah…. From the tap water…. Re: my original post
Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
When did you change to RODI? Your numbers this far in are off? even with tap water. The next problem I see is that with things so far off right from the gate, you are facing serious issues soon.
Honestly, I would do a 100% water change asap. You need to get the garbage from the tap water out of that tank. Did you rinse the sand? Did you wash the rocks? Are you running light yet? If yes, how long nd at what intensity? Have you done any water changes so far? How much did you change and how long was the interval between change and test? You have given us a pretty black canvas with a couple shaded spots.. can you fill it in some more?
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Andynz2000
Active Member
Why would I do a 100% water change? the tank isnt cycled yet. I'll wait for it to cycle and then do a large water change
Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
Because your tank IS cycled... Again, do not confuse "cycled" with "mature".
The rocks in your tank hold ALL of the cycling bacteria you need. You should do a 100% water change because A, you have no stock yet to be bothered by it, and B, You have a lot of unwanted additions to your tank via tap water.
You said you use Dr. Tim's bottled bacteria from the start right? You could have added fish from day 1 or 2 no problem. That is the point of those products, to jumpstart the cycle to allow for introduction of stock from the start.
You said it has been 3 weeks plus to this point. the bacteria are well seeded into every single pore in your entire system by now. Every rock, every sponge, every single thing the water touches inside the tank, in the sump, the rocks, the decorations, even the fish themselves... it's EVERYWHERE!!!
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Andynz2000
Active Member
Its not cycled bud....
I added dr tims bacteria 8 days ago because the sea chem stability wasnt doing anything. The ammonia was added 3 weeks ago at 1.5ppm.... and has stayed that way for 3 weeks.
I added dr tims bacteria 8 days ago because the sea chem stability wasnt doing anything. The ammonia was added 3 weeks ago at 1.5ppm.... and has stayed that way for 3 weeks.
This tank is cycled. You’re using dated assessment measures to define the ready date, and no seneye. The prior methods of cycling don’t allow for testing error so they cause lots of repeat purchases of bottle bac, unneeded wait extensions and a loss of focus on fish disease preps/ it’s why the new ways came about- to earn timely start dates and reduce costs and focus on disease preps correctly.
if you owned a seneye you’d see how it was handling ammonia on day one, and the new benthic growth came after ammonia control. The bottle bac used works quicker than three weeks but you’d need digital kits to see it.
we fix cycles for thousands of reefers who dont own seneye by showing them other tanks just like theirs who do own one, and what seneye shows on week 3.
it’s ok to wait as long as you’d like but you should ask for a refund too from the pet store for the bacteria, you paid for five day bac and are having to wait a month after paying. We could have cycled you that fast with feed alone, no bottle bac, so tell them to refund the purchase.
if you owned a seneye you’d see how it was handling ammonia on day one, and the new benthic growth came after ammonia control. The bottle bac used works quicker than three weeks but you’d need digital kits to see it.
we fix cycles for thousands of reefers who dont own seneye by showing them other tanks just like theirs who do own one, and what seneye shows on week 3.
it’s ok to wait as long as you’d like but you should ask for a refund too from the pet store for the bacteria, you paid for five day bac and are having to wait a month after paying. We could have cycled you that fast with feed alone, no bottle bac, so tell them to refund the purchase.
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Fair question agreed, it’s because your test kit isn’t seneye
consider this same seemingly stopped system
www.reef2reef.com
If you want to run the same steps you can, a full or large water change will remove mixed metabolites messing with your kit but it isn’t free ammonia clouding it. your slicks are on all surfaces and will handle initial bioload just as that tank did. On a cycling chart by day ten, ammonia has natural controls in place that counts too, digital cycling never conflicts with that inherent timeline and non digital testing surely does. In another current reading comparison thread we have running seneye compared to api and the lag time for api to catch up to seneye was over a week longer, something about these non digital kits just doesn’t process wastewater accurately and the interference registers as ammonia though we can see it’s not on seneye.
consider this same seemingly stopped system
100% Water Change
So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!
www.reef2reef.com
If you want to run the same steps you can, a full or large water change will remove mixed metabolites messing with your kit but it isn’t free ammonia clouding it. your slicks are on all surfaces and will handle initial bioload just as that tank did. On a cycling chart by day ten, ammonia has natural controls in place that counts too, digital cycling never conflicts with that inherent timeline and non digital testing surely does. In another current reading comparison thread we have running seneye compared to api and the lag time for api to catch up to seneye was over a week longer, something about these non digital kits just doesn’t process wastewater accurately and the interference registers as ammonia though we can see it’s not on seneye.
Jedi1199
2500 Club Member
The simple fact you have Nitrates says so. Nitrate is the LAST product of the cycle. In order to have Nitrates you must first break down the ammonia and Nitrites. It doesn't work any other way.
My best guess is either, you are misreading your test results, or you are not administering the test correctly, or you have a bad kit.
Personally, I have never owned an ammonia test kit (or nitrite) as they are basically useless after about 2 weeks or so. I personally cannot justify buying something I will use 2 or 3 times and never touch again.
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I'm going to disagree. There are lots of reasons that ammonia could still be that high - and I've observed in my own nitrifying experiments.
1. the Original test was wrong and the ammonia was dosed much higher than expected - which can lead to a 'delay'
2. the subsequent ammonia testing is flawed (somehow).
But - I have seen 99% of them time - when the ammonia is 'high' - it does not stay high - it drops suggesting - either it dropped - or one (or both tests) is in error IMHO - it does not make sense not to use Ammonia tests after 2 weeks - they should be just as accurate as day 1. NOW - thats not to say the free ammonia is toxic - only that I believe the tests (within Avery small percentage). 1.5 ppm seems 'too high' - and is likely an error in testing - somehow.
1. the Original test was wrong and the ammonia was dosed much higher than expected - which can lead to a 'delay'
2. the subsequent ammonia testing is flawed (somehow).
But - I have seen 99% of them time - when the ammonia is 'high' - it does not stay high - it drops suggesting - either it dropped - or one (or both tests) is in error IMHO - it does not make sense not to use Ammonia tests after 2 weeks - they should be just as accurate as day 1. NOW - thats not to say the free ammonia is toxic - only that I believe the tests (within Avery small percentage). 1.5 ppm seems 'too high' - and is likely an error in testing - somehow.
Screwgunner
Valuable Member
Every one who uses dr. Tims always has false reading for ammonia. If you have diatoms it is cycled. Like he said 100 % rodi water change and add a fish . Let's get this party started.
Screwgunner
Valuable Member
I have a 125 gallon reef . I started it with Dr.Tims one and only . I put a large bottle in and the next day 13 fish two have died over the last year. I believe that a green chomis was sick when I got him and nasso tang I could not get to eat. He lasted 10 days but the rest are very healthy.
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