What "add fish on day 1" tank starter / cycling bacteria do people actually use?

[taricha]

So other than Biospira, One and Only, and Fritz turbostart (known chemoautotroph "traditional" nitrifiers) What other bacterial products do people use to start or cycle their tanks?

The distinction that I'm making here is that the three products I listed can consume ammonia even without any other food source in the tank. But there are a number of other tank starter products that do not process ammonia unless they have an organic carbon source. These kind will say you can or should add fish on day one, because they need the fish / fish food as a carbon source to do much to the ammonia. These are heterotroph nitrifiers and as far as we can tell ("myth or fact" thread), all starter products other than the three listed are of this type.

So which starters other than Biospira, one and only, and Fritz turbostart do people actually use?

 

[Miami Reef]

Some people use Microbacter 7.

 

[A Young Reefer]

I use seachem stability.

 

[taricha]

Here's a bit more data, from the big "Cycling an Aquarium" thread.
products used over the last 20 pages:

Fritz: 5
One and Only: 10
Biospira: 2
--------------------
Aquaforest Bio S: 1
MB Start XLM: 1
MB7: 5
API Quickstart: 2
TLC Startsmart: 1
Seachem Stability: 2
MicrobeLift Special blend: 1

Bag of Live sand: 1

 

[taricha]

Ok, this tells me basically what I was wanting to know.
Data from the big "Cycling an Aquarium" thread.
products used over the last 35 pages:

Fritz: 9
One and Only: 20
Biospira: 5
--------------------
Aquaforest Bio S: 2
MB Start XLM: 8
MB7: 9
API Quick Start: 3
TLC Startsmart: 1
Seachem Stability: 5
MicrobeLift Special blend: 2
Nutri SeaWater: 1
Aquavitro Seed: 1

Bag of Live sand: 3

 

[chipchipbro]

Modern Reef Nitri-Bac & Modern Reef BioDiversity

 

[Gretchacha]

So other than Biospira, One and Only, and Fritz turbostart (known chemoautotroph "traditional" nitrifiers) What other bacterial products do people use to start or cycle their tanks?

The distinction that I'm making here is that the three products I listed can consume ammonia even without any other food source in the tank. But there are a number of other tank starter products that do not process ammonia unless they have an organic carbon source. These kind will say you can or should add fish on day one, because they need the fish / fish food as a carbon source to do much to the ammonia. These are heterotroph nitrifiers and as far as we can tell ("myth or fact" thread), all starter products other than the three listed are of this type.

So which starters other than Biospira, one and only, and Fritz turbostart do people actually use?

Fritz Turbostart 900. From bucket experiments in my fishroom starting my current tank, this one worked insanely well. Compared to DR Tim’s which never started to cycle at all (the Dr Tim’s was from Amazon , so consider the source). PNS Substrate Sauce also did nothing.
Turbostart 900 will only be sold fresh and cold from a dedicated fish distributor, so this may factor into the success. Since the experiment, I only use Turbostart when settting up a new tank, Hospital/QT or a tank crash. It works in just days!

There is a long thread in the experiment section detailing starter biotic comparisons, which is how I found it. Biospira is never in stock when I need it, so I have never tried it.

 

[Gretchacha]

The distinction that I'm making here is that the three products I listed can consume ammonia even without any other food source in the tank. But there are a number of other tank starter products that do not process ammonia unless they have an organic carbon source. These kind will say you can or should add fish on day one, because they need the fish / fish food as a carbon source to do much to the ammonia.

FWIW, if you are boosting bacteria with a fish-in cycle, or anytime there is a bacteria crash, only feed your lowest protein food pellets for a few days. This will ensure there is enough carbs and phosphorus to feed the bacteria to catch up to processing the nitrogen sources. For example, NLS pellets are 39% protein and Hikari Seaweed Extreme is 33% protein. Avoid the 50-60% luxury foods for a while. And feed your coral benepets benereef a tiny bit every morning. They are 25% protein with enough carbs and b vitamins for probiotics support.

 

[taricha]

PNS Substrate Sauce also did nothing.

I had wondered that. Thanks. I feel like it could lower ammonia given some light. I've been wondering if it could operate heterotrophically in the dark with some fish food.

only feed your lowest protein food pellets for a few days. This will ensure there is enough carbs and phosphorus to feed the bacteria to catch up to processing the nitrogen sources. For example, NLS pellets are 39% protein and Hikari Seaweed Extreme is 33% protein. Avoid the 50-60% luxury foods for a while.

This is good advice. The bacteria that operate heterotrophically in theory should have some ratio of Carbon to Nitrogen at which they can keep ammonia in check - but if the C/N ratio is insufficient, the heterotrophs alone should not be able to keep ammonia from being produced.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Fritz Turbostart 900. From bucket experiments in my fishroom starting my current tank, this one worked insanely well.

Can you explain how you carried out the bucket experiments?

 

[Gretchacha]

Can you explain how you carried out the bucket experiments?

I was pre-cycling artificial dry rock and filter media in 5 gallon buckets. I used brightwell neomarine salt, heaters and water circulators in each bucket. I used Brightwell Quikcycle for ammonia and phosphorus. Some buckets got DrTims saltwater one and only, and others got Fritz Turbostart 900. I went away for the weekend and tested 3 days later. All the TurboStart buckets were cycled and I started maintenance dosing Qwikcycl to keep them going. The Dr Tims never cycled. After 10 days I did a partial water change in DrTims buckets and added PNS substrate sauce. This also didn’t work. After 3 weeks I redid those buckets with Fritz Turbostart.

 

[Gretchacha]

I am really unsure about PNS substrate sauce. It causes bacteria blooms when I use it. I think it is important to have these bacteria in the tank for the corals to eat and to process nutrients in various locations, like in the sand next to the glass which is where cyano starts for me (my tank is next to a window in my sunroom). But, since I always get a bacterial bloom (this happened in the bucket experiment too), I now inject it monthly next to the glass by making a dilution and using a syringe. I occasionally add it to the water column for food, but only 1.5 ml for a 30 G tank and very rarely. I do not notice any change in nutrients in my tank with PNS substrate sauce.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Fritz Turbo Start, always
(But I never add fish on day 1!)

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I was pre-cycling artificial dry rock and filter media in 5 gallon buckets. I used brightwell neomarine salt, heaters and water circulators in each bucket. I used Brightwell Quikcycle for ammonia and phosphorus. Some buckets got DrTims saltwater one and only, and others got Fritz Turbostart 900. I went away for the weekend and tested 3 days later. All the TurboStart buckets were cycled and I started maintenance dosing Qwikcycl to keep them going. The Dr Tims never cycled. After 10 days I did a partial water change in DrTims buckets and added PNS substrate sauce. This also didn’t work. After 3 weeks I redid those buckets with Fritz Turbostart.

Cool, thanks. Which brand and how much filter media (approximately how much anaerobic surface area)? What light intensity (was there light)? What water temperature? What were the beginning and ending levels of ammonia, nitrate and phosphate (and any other parameters you could provide)? Did you add any kind of organic carbon (if so, what kind(s) and how much)? Any vitamins (at least any that you know of)? When you performed the partial water change, did you add any more ammonia (and how much was 'partial')? How many buckets in each group? What occurred after you dosed TurboStart into the remaining buckets (were those tested for ammonia, nitrate or phosphate)?

 

[Gretchacha]

That’s a lot of questions. I would have to go back into my aquarium log and look up those details. General response is that light was from windows and incidental room light for the most part. I did try coralline in a bottle with a hygger light for a while, too. Coralline needs no ammonia, so that didn’t work. The heaters were not all the same. But generally I keep tanks at 78 degrees and some were preset 78 degree heaters. I have SeaChem matrix (an inert natural volcanic tuffa highly porus) and ARM course media in my filter, which I had put in mesh bags to cycle in the buckets. I don’t do any carbon dosing. Quik Cycl has more than ammonia. I have used Dr Tims with straight ammonia in freshwater tanks before and it worked but took 8-10 days to cycle and a long time for the tank to mature. I tink i used 4 drops per 5 gallon bucket of quick cycle daily to keep things going. I don’t espouse a high dose like most do. You would have to change water to keep nitrates down if you always dosed 2ppm. I literally do something like 0.25 ppm for maintenance and 0.5 to start. Too high ammonia can inhibit the cycle, too.

 

[C4ctus99]

I’ve only ever used stability, but used it plenty without issue. Currently doing ttm with 2 clowns, coral beauty, and 2 barnacle blennies in a 5 gallon bucket and haven’t had any ammonia issues. Been putting in 1 capful at each transfer

 

[NkSde]

I used mbacter7 a frozen shrimp and carribsea sand to cycle my tank.

 

[Muffin87]

I’ve used prodibio biodigest in the past, but I know that doubts have been raised about that product.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I would have to go back into my aquarium log and look up those details.

Yes, please do!

 

[Gretchacha]

I remember that I had calculated how much ammonia would be produced by my first livestock based on the amount of feedings, and that was how I arrived at 0.25 ppm maintenance ammonia daily. Also, I use a canister filter instead of a sump, hence the pebble shaped media. I cycled the media 4 weeks and set up the tank mid March. I added another shot of Turbostart at that time as well, injecting it into the sandbed as well. I had one week of diatoms early on, like week 2, added some snails and a conch, and they were gone in days. I added a variety of pods and daily live phyto. No issues with uglies to speak of. About 3 months in now.