What am I supposed to do about this smh STOP USING IO SALT RN!!!

[Makubex]

To clarify - Ignore Nit I tes and focus on Nitr A tes

Okay i thought nitrates/phosphates were the ones you could care about the least, with ammonia being the most dangerous one and nitrite in the middle, I am thinking this applies to fw not sw

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay i thought nitrates/phosphates were the ones you could care about the least, with ammonia being the most dangerous one and nitrite in the middle, I am thinking this applies to fw not sw

Yes- FW

 

[Makubex]

Yes- FW

So for nitrates and nitrites what are their safe levels? I was told by a reefer near the area who gives out chaeto for free all the time(he grows it in a huge tub), that even 80 nitrates are fine, hes been keeping reefs since 20 years ago, thoughts on these

 

[vetteguy53081]

So for nitrates and nitrites what are their safe levels? I was told by a reefer near the area who gives out chaeto for free all the time(he grows it in a huge tub), that even 80 nitrates are fine, hes been keeping reefs since 20 years ago, thoughts on these

Nitites- Ignore
Nitrates- I run 12 but 10-20 is good. 80 is insane

 

[Ben.QLD2]

Slightly off topic, but I've noticed that lots of people here from the USA talk about salt and mixing it etc.

The best thing I ever did was make the change to natural seawater and now I have a 1000 litre container to store it in. I get a delivery every few months.

Is natural seawater used much in the USA?

 

[Bucs20fan]

So for nitrates and nitrites what are their safe levels? I was told by a reefer near the area who gives out chaeto for free all the time(he grows it in a huge tub), that even 80 nitrates are fine, hes been keeping reefs since 20 years ago, thoughts on these

80 nitrates is completely fine for a fish only tank. Fish arent sensitive to nitrates unless it gets to extreme levels. Coral and invertebrates are sensitive to high nitrates.

I stay above 30 nitrates at all time in my reef tank and my coral grows just fine.

 

[fish farmer]

Slightly off topic, but I've noticed that lots of people here from the USA talk about salt and mixing it etc.

The best thing I ever did was make the change to natural seawater and now I have a 1000 litre container to store it in. I get a delivery every few months.

Is natural seawater used much in the USA?

I'm going to say maybe in coastal areas like Florida it's available, but definitely not inland.

 

[Bucs20fan]

Slightly off topic, but I've noticed that lots of people here from the USA talk about salt and mixing it etc.

The best thing I ever did was make the change to natural seawater and now I have a 1000 litre container to store it in. I get a delivery every few months.

Is natural seawater used much in the USA?

I live in a coastal state, and the closest salt water is almost 3 hours away. Its not feasible for most of us and would cost a fortune to have shipped.

So I guess the answer to your question is no, its not very common except in coastal areas.

 

[vetteguy53081]

80 nitrates is completely fine for a fish only tank. Fish arent sensitive to nitrates unless it gets to extreme levels. Coral and invertebrates are sensitive to high nitrates.

I stay above 30 nitrates at all time in my reef tank and my coral grows just fine.

10-40 nitrates have always been an industry standard and i dont know where you are getting 80 as safe but I can assure you that it is documented and proven that high nitrates above 40 ppm often contribute to disease, growth stunting in fish and issues with reproduction. Fish can tolerate higher levels short term which in time becomes nitrate toxicosis which will weaken fish and their immune systems and lead to death !!
A big contributor is organic waste and Fish CANNOT endure an organic waste environment long term at high levels

 

[Bucs20fan]

10-40 nitrates have always been an industry standard and i dont know where you are getting 80 as safe but I can assure you that it is documented and proven that high nitrates above 40 ppm often contribute to disease, growth stunting in fish and issues with reproduction. Fish can tolerate higher levels short term which in time becomes nitrate toxicosis which will weaken fish and their immune systems and lead to death !!
A big contributor is organic waste and Fish CANNOT endure an organic waste environment long term at high levels

Were gonna have to disagree on this one. Ive run a fowlr tank for several years which has nitrates always above 60. And I have fully grown fish, including a bamboo shark. So I completely disagree with this assessment.

Not to mention my entire reef runs 30-40 nitrates and does completely fine, inverts and coral included. Nitrates are highly debated and I get it. yes they contribute to algae.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Were gonna have to disagree on this one. Ive run a fowlr tank for several years which has nitrates always above 60. And I have fully grown fish, including a bamboo shark. So I completely disagree with this assessment.

Not to mention my entire reef runs 30-40 nitrates and does completely fine, inverts and coral included. Nitrates are highly debated and I get it. yes they contribute to algae.

I just recently attended a seminar on water chemistry and the effects of nitrates which derive from Organic waste was discussed in depth. Nitrates are often blamed for many issue when its phosphate, however the consensus was 40 or below and reason why we skim , do water changes to reduce organics not to mention false reading factors and realize that nitrates are Ions and can cause fish to have issues regulating body fluids.
Ive been running tanks for decades amongst many LFS and wholesalers i know of within 20ppm.

Ive chimed in 2 who work with chemistry and public aquariums to offer their take on this.

@Randy Holmes-Farley
@Jay Hemdal

 

[Bucs20fan]

I just recently attended a seminar on water chemistry and the effects of nitrates which derive from Organic waste was discussed in depth. Nitrates are often blamed for many issue when its phosphate, however the consensus was 40 or below and reason why we skim , do water changes to reduce organics not to mention false reading factors and realize that nitrates are Ions and can cause fish to regulate body fluids.
Ive been running tanks for decades amongst many LFS and wholesalers i know of within 20ppm.

Ive chimed in 2 who work with chemistry and public aquariums to chime in on this.

@Randy Holmes-Farley
@Jay Hemdal

Like I said, we can disagree on what is industry standard.
Disagreeing is completely fine. But if I actively and have had for some time, levels that contradict what you say then I am going to mention it.

I appreciate all opinions and I always respect yours, but it does not make me have to agree with you.

While I agree very much with your levels for a reef tank.

But I stand by what I said, 60-80 nitrates is not harmful in a fowlr tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I mixed rodi water with instant ocean-purple bag(its for reef and labeled as the best professional salt out there), and right now I need salt but can not wait a week for shipping nor I can pay their ridiculous double spiked up prices, I tested for both rodi water and the saltwater with salifert ammonia test kit and my ammonia reads 2.0!!! STOP using this salt or your fish and corals WILL die within an hour!!!, I know no one tests their new water especially for ammonia but I did for the sake of it(and all the salt I have right now is instant ocean purple brand for 400+ gallons), I tested the rodi water and read 0 ammonia 0 nitrites, etc. What am I supposed to do now tell me!, those acans wont survive even 30'

Fresh mixed IO has some ammonia in it as a trace contaminant of one of the salts, probably the MgCL2. About half the sea salts I've tested have some ammonia, some higher some lower.

However, I've never tested ammonia higher than 0.25 ppm in IO, so I think you need to looks at contributing factors; a bad batch of salt, bad test kit, damaged RODI unit, testing error, etc.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Like I said, we can disagree on what is industry standard.
Disagreeing is completely fine. But if I actively and have had for some time, levels that contradict what you say then I am going to mention it.

I appreciate all opinions and I always respect yours, but it does not make me have to agree with you.

While I agree very much with your levels for a reef tank.

But I stand by what I said, 60-80 nitrates is not harmful in a fowlr tank.

I would caution folks that they need to be very clear when they say "nitrates" do they mean nitrates or nitrate-nitrogen? If one person is using one term, and the other person is using the other, they will never agree because the conversion factor; Nitrate = Nitrate Nitrogen x 4.43

80 mg/l nitrate-nitrogen is 354.4 mg/l nitrate.

Jay

 

[happyhourhero]

Slightly off topic, but I've noticed that lots of people here from the USA talk about salt and mixing it etc.

The best thing I ever did was make the change to natural seawater and now I have a 1000 litre container to store it in. I get a delivery every few months.

Is natural seawater used much in the USA?

It’s a big country and we like to pollute a lot here. If you have a boat and can get offshore it may be ok but it’s easier to just mix your own. I live 15 min from the gulf and have used some but it’s really just easier and removes a ton of variables to just mix my own.

 

[brandon429]

I also see these debates in minutiae as forgetting one important detail from updated cycling science

-quit worrying about ammonia in a display reef tank-


if we are working in a quarantine setup, then worry

but not for a display. There isn't any incoming source of ammonia that's going to wreck your tank, harm your cycle, poison fish, any of it. All these alert posts are never about losses they're about non digital nh4 test kit readings

if you want to cycle a display tank, we can do it without any ammonia testing/any param testing at all/select a testless cycling option so you can be done by a timely date instead of worrying over misreading test kits like the masses do (and getting false stuck cycles lasting weeks/months/years)

see the pattern? on file for the last ten years in all ammonia alert posts: it's regarding a test measure, yet the display is fine. that applies here too.

*there are myriad posts available using seneye across several reefs to see that even when decent loads of liquid cycling ammonia are added to reef displays, orders more actual ammonia than anyone's panic post may be inputting, the system resolves this ammonia in 10 minutes

we can't see the ten minute resolve rate on cheap test kits: those take ten days to resolve in most comparative settings and some never get below .25-all the way up to eight ppm. I have multiple examples of perfectly running years old tanks posting eight ppm/dark green on api and setting everyone into a frenzy

it doesn't matter what kit you own for ammonia: if you're dealing with a display reef, quit testing for it, quit worrying about it, your tank isn't suffering from ammonia noncontrol.

lastly: nobody, zero, nobody who has a calibrated seneye machine has a perceptual ammonia control issue. that's solely a fear realm for owners of cheap test kits. It doesn't matter if one salt mix has some free ammonia and some other's don't, its too trivial a matter to worry about.

Only old cycling science has you in fear the ammonia sky is falling. the top two kits in reefing you don't ever need to own are in specific order: a nitrite test kit, and an ammonia test kit. if you must own an ammonia kit, pay up the big bucks for seneye OR just apply updated cycling science to your reef and you won't need any kits for it at all, ever, in a display setup.

 

[Bucs20fan]

I would caution folks that they need to be very clear when they say "nitrates" do they mean nitrates or nitrate-nitrogen? If one person is using one term, and the other person is using the other, they will never agree because the conversion factor; Nitrate = Nitrate Nitrogen x 4.43

80 mg/l nitrates is 354.4 mg/l nitrate-nitrogen.

Jay

I agree completely, but we are all talking about standard testing numbers, given by a hanna, salifert etc. And I disagree that a nitrate level of 45 is going to harm fish long term. Hence my personal Fowlr that constantly tests on the Hanna high range nitrate checker above 50.

I wasn’t meaning any harm but to say that a nitrate level of 80 is insane and will kill fish if it’s not fixed is simply not true.

 

[Battlecorals]

Slightly off topic, but I've noticed that lots of people here from the USA talk about salt and mixing it etc.

The best thing I ever did was make the change to natural seawater and now I have a 1000 litre container to store it in. I get a delivery every few months.

Is natural seawater used much in the USA?

I'll field this one!


Unfortunately not in Wisconsin. lol. but i'd imagine this would be an option for coastal regions to some extent.

 

[Budman93]

I mixed rodi water with instant ocean-purple bag(its for reef and labeled as the best professional salt out there), and right now I need salt but can not wait a week for shipping nor I can pay their ridiculous double spiked up prices, I tested for both rodi water and the saltwater with salifert ammonia test kit and my ammonia reads 2.0!!! STOP using this salt or your fish and corals WILL die within an hour!!!, I know no one tests their new water especially for ammonia but I did for the sake of it(and all the salt I have right now is instant ocean purple brand for 400+ gallons), I tested the rodi water and read 0 ammonia 0 nitrites, etc. What am I supposed to do now tell me!, those acans wont survive even 30'

Couldnt you just get some RODI water, put the salt in and then sample that for ammonia if you were sure it was the salt? Seems unlikely unless a mouse died in your bag of salt or something lol.

Edit read that you did. Only other option is that your testing kit is wrong or you got a bag of salt with ammonia in it which seems very unlikely.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I know for a fact that Carbon Filters can get overwhelmed with Chlorine and Dump it back in the water. We used Carbon Filters on Flake Ice Machines. If the customer, didn’t stick to the change out schedule, they would get a Chlorine Dump. I believe that IO has chemicals to neutralize Chlorine. Doesn’t this reaction produce Ammonia temporarily in this process?