What are some food supplements for coralivores?

[Perpetual Novice]

About 6 months ago I bought a pair of orange spotted filefish. I know they’re supposed to eat exclusively live coral but can sometimes be trained to accept prepared foods. I couldn’t supply my filefish with live coral but the whole reason I bought them was because they were eating frozen food in store. They got along well in my tank and were ravenously eating brine and mysis shrimp from day one. They were plump and happy for a couple months and then both suddenly became reclusive and stopped eating. They died shortly after only a few days apart. Neither showed any signs of disease and they didn’t show signs of being malnourished despite not eating for a couple days.

I don’t know what I did wrong since all my testing and observation showed nothing was out of the ordinary in my tank. They weren’t being bullied or outcompeted. Nothing.

my best guess is that they weren’t getting some essential nutrients they needed which are present in their natural coral diet but absent in my regular prepared food regiment. I really want to try again but I know it would be irresponsible without learning and improving my fish husbandry to accommodate whatever needs weren’t being met before.

I think if I can find a way to supplement their food with the correct nutrients then I can justify giving it another try.

so does anyone know any additives or supplements that are designed to meet the needs of coralivores?

 

[pcon]

Well if no one else will, I will chime in with my 2c. Some very basic considerations. They need a near constant supply of food. Plan on feeding 10 times a day minimum to start. Brine and mysis are not particularly great foods from a nutritional profile perspective. Feeding high quality foods, high in fatty acids and vitamins, is extremely important. There is little to no evidence to suggest that there is any unique nutrient from coral that is needed by orange spot filefish or other piscine obligate corallivores. (please chime in if someone has any scientific literature that contradicts this, but it is my understanding of the literature and experts experience, I am not an expert)

Below is a great video to startwith, after it I would recommend looking into the people who bred the two species of orange spot files. I would also recommend the facebook group Corallivore Challenge although it is not as active as I would like.



To your actual question, there aren't very many if any coral eater supplements. As there is no evidence of a magic coral nutrient that other foods are missing and corallivores need. And not a lot of people are trying to keep coralivors, and even fewer people should. There are some supplements for angelfish and other sponge eaters, like brightwells angelixir, and sponge based foods like hikari's mega-marine angel, and ocean nutrition's angel formula. For some time there was a product from Panta-Rhei which was formulated with coral polyps, it is mentioned frequently by the people recently trying to keep corallivores. Though I have not been able to find it for sale in the last year.

I was thinking of attempting a system designed for an obligate butterfly as my next tank, in a few years. When I worked in a fish store, I had clients insist on attempting orange spots, and arabian butterflies, in their service tanks, without any success. So I have been reading about the issues associated with them, and the successes and failures of people attempting obligates for a few years now. It is something, I think is, best left to public aquarists and researchers who have the ability to care for these critters full time. I am thinking of doing an NPS biotope next instead and continue researching for 5 or 10 years while the experts figure out obligate corallivores.

If one is serious and has done their homework on caring for these extremely difficult animals, they can reach out to the public aquarists and expert breeders who have successful kept them, with their specific questions. I have found they tend to be receptive to people who have put in the work already and are coming with insightful questions based on extensive research. When the orange spot files were first captive bred I recall at least one of the breeders refused to publicly share what they felt was the key to feeding them, as to not encourage people without the prerequisite experience, knowledge and dedication. The information is out there, it’s important before attempting any Expert Only fish, to do the research, and spend the time diving deep into why they have the Expert Only reputation and what the challenges are and how others successfully overcome these challenges.

 

[Perpetual Novice]

Well if no one else will, I will chime in with my 2c. Some very basic considerations. They need a near constant supply of food. Plan on feeding 10 times a day minimum to start. Brine and mysis are not particularly great foods from a nutritional profile perspective. Feeding high quality foods, high in fatty acids and vitamins, is extremely important. There is little to no evidence to suggest that there is any unique nutrient from coral that is needed by orange spot filefish or other piscine obligate corallivores. (please chime in if someone has any scientific literature that contradicts this, but it is my understanding of the literature and experts experience, I am not an expert)

Below is a great video to startwith, after it I would recommend looking into the people who bred the two species of orange spot files. I would also recommend the facebook group Corallivore Challenge although it is not as active as I would like.



To your actual question, there aren't very many if any coral eater supplements. As there is no evidence of a magic coral nutrient that other foods are missing and corallivores need. And not a lot of people are trying to keep coralivors, and even fewer people should. There are some supplements for angelfish and other sponge eaters, like brightwells angelixir, and sponge based foods like hikari's mega-marine angel, and ocean nutrition's angel formula. For some time there was a product from Panta-Rhei which was formulated with coral polyps, it is mentioned frequently by the people recently trying to keep corallivores. Though I have not been able to find it for sale in the last year.

I was thinking of attempting a system designed for an obligate butterfly as my next tank, in a few years. When I worked in a fish store, I had clients insist on attempting orange spots, and arabian butterflies, in their service tanks, without any success. So I have been reading about the issues associated with them, and the successes and failures of people attempting obligates for a few years now. It is something, I think is, best left to public aquarists and researchers who have the ability to care for these critters full time. I am thinking of doing an NPS biotope next instead and continue researching for 5 or 10 years while the experts figure out obligate corallivores.

If one is serious and has done their homework on caring for these extremely difficult animals, they can reach out to the public aquarists and expert breeders who have successful kept them, with their specific questions. I have found they tend to be receptive to people who have put in the work already and are coming with insightful questions based on extensive research. When the orange spot files were first captive bred I recall at least one of the breeders refused to publicly share what they felt was the key to feeding them, as to not encourage people without the prerequisite experience, knowledge and dedication. The information is out there, it’s important before attempting any Expert Only fish, to do the research, and spend the time diving deep into why they have the Expert Only reputation and what the challenges are and how others successfully overcome these challenges.

thank you for all the info and the video!

Also, for the record, I didn't just impulse buy the fish. I researched a lot about their diet, social needs, acclimation, feeding schedule, diet training etc. Obviously it wasn't enough. I just don't want anyone to think I bought the fish without consideration.

One thing I did was to research where my store was getting their orange-spotted filefish and why they were accepting prepared foods so readily. My LFS told me they buy them from Quality Marine. I contacted Quality marine and was bounced around from person to person until eventually, I found myself on a call with their marine biologist. He told me his story about working at a public aquarium caring for difficult animals. He explained that, since he began working at quality marine that year, he had instituted a policy where they would not release any fish for sale unless they were eating prepared foods. He told me that in the case of the OSF he trained each arriving group for a month or more to teach them to accept prepared foods. He gave me some advice for caring for them and I really felt prepared.

As for leaving them to the researchers vs trying them in the home aquarium... I don't know how I feel. So much of what we have learned about caring for fish has come out of hobbyist experience as well as research. I feel like people should be encouraged to try to care for and learn about the animals we don't fully understand. but not when they haven't educated themselves to the fullest extent they are able to first. That's why I want to understand my failure. I will try again but I need to know a lot more.

 

[Mr Beardsley]

I had my own experience with a difficult species, which while unrelated might be of some help. In my case I had a blue spotted stingray. They are difficult to get eating. I figured once I had it eating PE mysis, I was set. It put on weight and I had it for 2 years. However, it suddenly passed, and when consulting an expert, they asked what I was supplying for fiber in its diet. That was an eye opening question, and what may be of help to you.

We know that coral contains symbiotic xooxanthellae, where you able to get your filefish eating any sort of algae? If all they ate was brine and mysis, they may need some sort of plan material in their diet.

 

[Perpetual Novice]

I had my own experience with a difficult species, which while unrelated might be of some help. In my case I had a blue spotted stingray. They are difficult to get eating. I figured once I had it eating PE mysis, I was set. It put on weight and I had it for 2 years. However, it suddenly passed, and when consulting an expert, they asked what I was supplying for fiber is its diet. That was an eye opening question, and what may be of help to you.

We know that coral contains symbiotic xooxanthellae, where you able to get your filefish eating any sort of algae? If all they ate was brine and mysis, they may need some sort of plan material in their diet.

it was spiralina brine. so chock full of algae and vitamins